Church plans Qur'an burning

[Aramike]

Just so there are is no confusion, I detest organized religion of all kinds, don't see as any one being better or worse than the others. Same as my view on politicians.

Either that's a failure of perception or a depraved sense of "anything goes" relativism.

For one, I see the religion that sends out missionaries with medicine as far better than the one which sends out zealots with bombs strapped to their backs.

[antikristuseke]

But it is the people who do that, not the religion. Their motivations may be religious, but religions are not sentient beings ordering anyone to do anything. Religion is just a convenient excuse to do either good or bad.

And yes, I do concider morals relative, hell, everything is relative, there are no real absolutes. Morals , for instance, are nothing more than a society deems acceptable at the time, sure it may be dressed up as divine orders, but it came from people. What I wouldnt say, though, is anything goes since humans are sentient and social beings, which means we should take eachother in to account when making our decisions, your freedom ends where my nose begins, or however that saying goes.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

But it is the people who do that, not the religion. Their motivations may be religious, but religions are not sentient beings ordering anyone to do anything.

Wrong. Relgions may not be being, but ideologies, but they order very well what people have to do and what not. That kind of commanding people is whzat defines religion. you obey, than you are a beoiever, you do not, than you are a heretic or an infidel. Obedience is the essence of religion.

Religion is just a convenient excuse to do either good or bad.

No, that are morals.

And yes, I do concider morals relative, hell, everything is relative, there are no real absolutes.

but still morals are not all of the same relative value. There are morals being more valuable than others, and since moral standards (and relgions) also define cultural standards, cultures also are not all of the same relative value - some are more humane and "good" than others. For example "do not do to others what you do not want to be done to you" is not really of the same moral standard and value like "obey, don't ask", or "it is acceptable to whip or kill a woman if she was disobedient to you, or got raped."

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Aramike

Either that's a failure of perception or a depraved sense of "anything goes" relativism.

For one, I see the religion that sends out missionaries with medicine as far better than the one which sends out zealots with bombs strapped to their backs.

And then there are those missionaries who go out with medicine - but only give it to those in need if they submit.

In the end, when you think you must make your personal rerlation to your relgion a public affair, you are no onger baout releigon, but politics. Best thing is a missionary who gives help when he is asked for, and never loses a single word on religion and does not waste one day with building temples, just lives his life on the basis what his reason and thought have showed him to be good for the few and good for the many. If it is convincing, others will become aware of his way of life. If it is not, he should not try to talk people into something.

You must not believe in a religion in order to want to help people. when you decide to help, do it for the people, not because your deity told you you should. Don't do it to collect some points on your heavenly banking account. Don't do it to raise attention for your ego. Just do it - that is good enough.