The definition of 'cringe worthy'

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by The Third Man

This is the video which makes me cringe.


CAUTION VERY, VERY GRAPHIC!!




Removed by advice.

He showed signs of either nerve reflex action or signs of visceral life for many seconds after the shot was fired.

EDIT: I'll say this about suicides though... killing one's self is an act that requires incredible amounts of cowardice mixed incredible amounts of bravery. just one way of looking at it

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

He showed signs of either nerve reflex action or signs of visceral life for many seconds after the shot was fired.

That is usually the case from what I have seen.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Dowly

That is usually the case from what I have seen.

Its amazing how many head shot cases try to communicate, or move or even have breath sounds for some time after taking a point blank bullet to the head.

though to be honest i couldnt imagine a worse death than decapitation.... they say the brain lives on some conscious level for several seconds after removal from the body, the brain no doubt in the severest state of helpless panic.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

though to be honest i couldnt imagine a worse death than decapitation.... they say the brain lives on some conscious level for several seconds after removal from the body, the brain no doubt in the severest state of helpless panic.

Gotta agree with that. I read an article about the issue few years back, where an doctor or scientist of some sort was present on guillotine executions to observe the decapitated heads and he found out that the victim's eyes and mouth/tongue, in some cases, could move as long as 10 seconds after the decapitation. Is it reflex or conscious movement, I don't know but it's a scary thought.

[SteamWake]

From a nutshot to decapitation in four posts...

Subsim at its best

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

From a nutshot to decapitation in four posts...

Subsim at its best

Decapitation is far more interesting topic, don't you think?

[jumpy]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Gotta agree with that. I read an article about the issue few years back, where an doctor or scientist of some sort was present on guillotine executions to observe the decapitated heads and he found out that the victim's eyes and mouth/tongue, in some cases, could move as long as 10 seconds after the decapitation. Is it reflex or conscious movement, I don't know but it's a scary thought.

You mean the guy who used to raise the head up to the baying crowd, so the victims last view of life was a crowd of people calling for their blood and cheering at their demise?

If anyone saw that film of the Philippino guys - contractors for the us army as cooks - being murdered by the al-Qaeda guy in iraq (I think it was)... half a dozen of them are shot point blank back of the head with an AK, but one poor bastard has his throat cut with a knife, and the ****** doing it proceeds to saw the guys head off then stand the severed head on the chest - body still twitching, and the lips still moving...

I think I commented at the time when I saw it - I've seen plenty of animals put to sleep, or slaughtered etc.

That poor sod suffered a worse death than many of the animals I refer to. By far the worst thing about it was the noises the poor guy made as his wind-pipe and vocal chords were severed. I'll remember that as long as I live.

So, there's definitely anecdotal evidence to support a 'life after decapitation' or traumatic brain injury.
I guess you have to take into consideration - hyperventilation and over oxygenation of the blood flow to the brain (not to mention massive amounts of adrenaline if you know what's coming). But you have to factor in (in the case of decapitation) the shock consequences to the central nervous system with the loss of blood, but also loss of the fluid contained within the spinal cord and that surrounds the brain itself iirc. How much is a conciousness at work and what is purely an autonomic response is debatable.

One of the problems with pest control, often n00bs who have never seen an animal killed, or killed an animal for themselves, mistake the 'twitch' response following a shot to the brain as the animal still being alive and suffering. Whilst this is sometimes the case with a misplaced shot, most of the time it is a result of the central nervous system shorting out/trying to complete the last instruction from the 'control-room'. It's not pleasant to see - especially if you make your best effort to make a clean kill - but sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't, regardless of how accurate your shooting was or is. There's a suggestion that it can depend upon what state the animal is in before it is shot (head shot) ie. is the animal calm an unaware of any danger, therefore there's no instinctual, pre-programmed 'flight to safety' instruction ready to go in the lower brain stem. Or if the animal is already primed tor flight/escape from a potential predator - taking out the higher brain functions will not always 'put out the lights'.

A good example of both of these scenarios is shooting rabbits with a 'humane' clean shot to the head: sometimes they just slump down and there's a very small twitch then nothing, whilst other times they will somersault into the air and make violent movements with the hind and fore-legs - inspection of the carcass reveals an ideal strike to the target area (in both cases), between the bottom of the ear and the eye where they would meet if an imaginary right angle connected the two.

It's a visceral business, life and death. Something most western cultures have thoroughly dislocated themselves from. This is further not helped by the hollywood 'clean death' or death with emotional overtones but lacking the reality of it all.
I always though that to be a slaughter man, you had to have a good deal of respect for the animal you were destroying. A chap I know does this with farm animals. When the animal is collected or delivered to the knacker yard, he is very firm about everyone being out of the way so as not to stress the animal. And whilst he's not running an industrial process, he doesn't hang about and his outward demeanour is always calm and relaxed, for the animals sake as they are good at picking up stress in humans. He does his best for them and because of his experience with animals he understands how to calm them and put them at ease; this is particularly the case with horses. Having seen him do the deed on a number of occasions in the past, I don't believe for a minute that the animal had any fear or knowledge of what was coming. If there was ever a humane way to kill an animal then surely that must be it.

This and my own experience of dispatching rabbits and other small 'pest' species hints at there being a significant environmental/fear/calm/relaxed aspect to what happens to an animal when death by catastrophic brain injury occurs. It's reasonable to make the same assumptions regarding humans, seeing as the basic mechanics of the central nervous system work in the same way.

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Its amazing how many head shot cases try to communicate, or move or even have breath sounds for some time after taking a point blank bullet to the head.

It is often reffered to as a death rattle. The breathing sounds.

[papa_smurf]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteamWake
From a nutshot to decapitation in four posts...

Subsim at its best

Decapitation is far more interesting topic, don't you think?

I love how we go off at a complete tangent

[danzig70]

Originally Posted by The Third Man

It is often reffered to as a death rattle. The breathing sounds.

I think Stephen King wrote a novel where a pregnant woman is in a car accident and has her head cut off. But the body was still able to give birth to the baby. At least I hope it was a novel.

Its interesting to read people's opinions on suicide.

Originally Posted by danzig70

I think Stephen King wrote a novel where a pregnant woman is in a car accident and has her head cut off. But the body was still able to give birth to the baby. At least I hope it was a novel.

Its interesting to read people's opinions on suicide.

It isn't only suicides that exhibit a death rattle. People in hospital often develop the symptom. From onset to death is less than 24 hours. It is usually at this point the doctor informs the family that death is imminent. It's a human thing. That is why the families are so often present at death.

PS we won't go into the death erection exhibited by men.

[Task Force]

Cringe worthy = Just about every hollywood movie that comes out nowdays.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

EDIT: I'll say this about suicides though... killing one's self is an act that requires incredible amounts of cowardice mixed incredible amounts of bravery. just one way of looking at it

I'd say it depends upon the circumstance. There's an interesting book that touches on the subject called "The Lucifer Principle" by Howard Bloom. In it, he touches on the neurobiological reasons for suicide by equating it with cellular apoptosis, which is when a cell destroys itself because it isn't needed. Bloom's theory is that individuals are like cells in a social superorganism, and when they feel cut off or unwanted, they trigger a kind of biological self-destruct mechanism. He makes a convincing case using examples from the Animal Kingdom as well as a number of human case studies, but I'm not decided on the issue just yet.

Personally, I've always considered suicide to be an act of cowardice and waste. I have no problem with people who sacrifice their lives for others, or for a mission, except when they aren't me; that's Marine brainwashing for you. But when someone ends their own life for no purpose, I see it as selfish and, well, cowardly. Even if you have nothing to live for, you should still have the common courtesy use your life for some kind of constructive end. Now that I think about it, maybe that's why so many desperate people turn to charitable church work.

[Dowly]

'The Bridge' was a good documentary. It's about the Golden Gate bridge and the large-ish amount of suicides that occur there every year.

Trailer:


EDIT: Whole documentary is on YT, part 1 here: (DISTURBING SCENES, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!)


PS. Mods, if you feel this is against the rules feel free to edit my post. I post it as it is an documentary and from my experience, Subsim does allow documentaries to be posted (look the amount of documataries about uboats, tanks and airplanes we got all over the forums).

[geetrue]

The problem with death is that life is never really over.

Life is over in that body for that indvidual ... but at the moment of death that is who you are forever ...

good, bad, grumpy, happy, saved or unsaved.

The body you destroy is not cheating the judge that stands at the door.

It is the soul that is left ... the spirit, the love and the hate you had continues on for eternity in some God forsaken place or perhaps in a heavenly one.

The body is dead without the spirit ....

the spirit wanders till it can be claimed by one side or the other, but then again their is lukewarm and perhaps you'll find yourself on a bar floor room somewhere wondering what the hell happened.

Don't you ever wonder where all of those spooky stories come from about ghost, invisable to the naked eye, many times heard, but not seen.

Spirits of trapped people, desembodied souls, in a world we cannot even begin to understand.

If you want to fear something ... fear your lack of discernment in such matters as suicide.

Take the long way home not the quick way