German Police Arrest man with "Hitlermobil"

[Kissaki]

Originally Posted by August

I figure the Germans have the right to ban and restrict nazi images in their country without being accused of violating free speech rights.

The way I see it the nazis gave up their right to speak freely in modern society because of their actions.

Hereditary sin?

If it were up to me we'd go after every neo nazi group worldwide with tanks and infantry and finish the job we left off back in 1945.

The only good nazi is a dead nazi.

Yes, John Rabe was a horrible, horrible man! And wiping out anyone with an oponion we find distasteful can surely be no murder, if we can find justification in likeminded people in history. Come to think of it, the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat, because they were anti-abolitionists back in the day. And modern day Democrats - including Obama - are just as guilty as those 200 years ago and must suffer the consequences. What they have themselves actually done or not done is entirely irrelevant.

[August]

[QUOTE=Kissaki;1437034]Hereditary sin?

Come to think of it, the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat, because they were anti-abolitionists back in the day. And modern day Democrats - including Obama - are just as guilty as those 200 years ago and must suffer the consequences. What they have themselves actually done or not done is entirely irrelevant.

When the Democrats deliberately murder 9 million people then you betcha.

[Gerald]

[QUOTE=August;1437097]

Originally Posted by Kissaki

Hereditary sin?





When the Democrats deliberately murder 9 million people then you betcha.

But in this case was,ono mans"no thinking at all, so what are we do for to prevent this?
Forbidd or Be my guest?

[Kissaki]

Originally Posted by August

When the Democrats deliberately murder 9 million people then you betcha.

Does that mean ALL Democrats deliberately murder 9 million people? From now on and till the end of time?

Originally Posted by Vendor

But in this case was,ono mans"no thinking at all, so what are we do for to prevent this?
Forbidd or Be my guest?

Yes, in this case, he fully deserved some sort of legal repercussion. I think three years is extreme, though, unless most of it is suspended. The reason this guy deserved it is because he wasn't simply voicing his opinion, he was disturbing the peace and instigating to whatever mayhem he could.

[Skybird]

Must people really be officially allowed all freedom to do maximum damage possible?

I have a problem with plticians manipulating and gagging media for party interests. I have a porblem with corproations lobbying to betray voter'S vote and nevertheless acchieve different legislation than was voted for by voters.

I have no problem with free speech restricted if it calls for the destruction of the constitutional order (and this is what it is about, if you go back to the german constitution that I quoted). I WANT Islamic hate speech banned, becasue it mitivates andlures oyung men to go to pakistan, learn how to build bombs and assassinate people from the hidden. and if there would have been a ban on racist speech and natiobnalistic propaganda in the early 30s, maybe we would have escaped a holocaust with 6 million Jews and mor eothers being slaughtered like cattle, and over 50 million killed in war, most of them civilians.

Unlimited freedom for the individual living in a community context, is just one thing, and it never is anything different: anarchy, the law of the jungle. Where your way of living touches upon the way of living of others, your freedoms find limits, necessarily. If you deny that, you only find chaos, slaughter, war.

the more private you are, the more free you can behave (as long as your action does not cause consequences for others). the more public or social you are, the more rules necessarily must limit your freedoms, else you become the bully of the block. the citical thinking must not go into that principle - it is beyond discussion. The critical thinking must go into the rules and their balancing.

[August]

Originally Posted by Kissaki

From now on and till the end of time?

So do you really think the Nazi party can be rehabilitated? That it some how can transform itself into something that doesn't condone wholesale dispossession, torture and murder of people who don't meet their racial purity standards?

Well I'll tell you what Kissaki. If and when the nazis ever stop advocating these things then maybe, maybe, i'll accept their continued existence in human society. Until then I say we aggressively pursue and eradicate them wherever they surface.

[Skybird]

This absolute understanding of free speech reminds me of another stupid debate that we have in Germany: people going into a terror camp in pakistan to get training for terrorist activities like building bombs, blowing trains up, or participating in jihad - could they be arrested for going there, or is it their freedom to go there and get that training, but should only be arrested if they actzally USE that training in practice? Is their motivation really still in doubt when they go there? Could one wish to get terror training for another, more peaceful purpose than doing terrorist stuff? Why do you think they try to get that training? Action holidays? Violent recreation?

Same goes for the abuse of free speech. when it is abused for directly or indirectly destroying free speech, or the constitutional order of the satate/the national community, or expresses sympathy to ideas aiming at that.

In crime movies we often follow the action with anger when we see how the victim tries to find help and protection from it'S murder, and the polcie says "sorry, as long as nothihng happened we cannot do anything for you." and when the victim finally is dead, then the police starts working. why do some of you guys not feel this kind of anger when people abuse free speech for the above mentioned purposes?

[Skybird]

@ Kissaki, could it be that you try to relativise the evil in Nazism? You give me the strong impression that you try right this. Some ideologies are inhumane from A to Z. They are not sometimes better than at other times. They were inhumane in the past, they are inhumane in the rpesent, and they will be inhumane in the future to come.

In Russia they are currently relativising Stalin's horrifying death record.

The Chinese justify the massacre on the place of heavenly peace as püolitical reason.

In America they are building a mosque near Ground Zero.

In Africa they are ignoring the Islamic genocide in Darfhur .

In Iran they deny the holocaust and make mockery of it.

And so many other examples...


Wanna fall in line with that kind of doing?

[Kissaki]

Originally Posted by Skybird

@ Kissaki, could it be that you try to relativise the evil in Nazism? You give me the strong impression that you try right this. Some ideologies are inhumane from A to Z. They are not sometimes better than at other times. They were inhumane in the past, they are inhumane in the rpesent, and they will be inhumane in the future to come.

I'm not trying to defend Nazism in the slightest. But the whole point about freedom of speech is that we allow precisely those opinions which we do not like. It is no high mark to allow opinions you already tolerate. No society in the history of the world has ever done less.

In Russia they are currently relativising Stalin's horrifying death record.

They have done that since he was still alive and kicking.

The Chinese justify the massacre on the place of heavenly peace as püolitical reason.

This is nothing new, either.

In America they are building a mosque near Ground Zero.

They are building a cultural center which will include a mosque. Not quite the same thing. And it passed the vote with clear majority, so what's the problem?

In Africa they are ignoring the Islamic genocide in Darfhur .

In Iran they deny the holocaust and make mockery of it.

And so many other examples...


Wanna fall in line with that kind of doing?

I really don't see what relevance any of that has with what we are talking about. What you are doing here is fear-mongering, plain and simple. Basically what you are saying is that if we do not restrict freedom of speech - not in how it can be used, mind you, but in which people have a right to use it - bad things will happen. And as if to ram the point home, you caution that, "if you defend their rights, you must be one of them!" Something which does not make me particularly inclined to be swayed by your words.

[Kissaki]

Originally Posted by August

So do you really think the Nazi party can be rehabilitated? That it some how can transform itself into something that doesn't condone wholesale dispossession, torture and murder of people who don't meet their racial purity standards?

Who's talking about the Nazi party? We're talking about people, and their opinions. Do you really want a thought police?

Well I'll tell you what Kissaki. If and when the nazis ever stop advocating these things then maybe, maybe, i'll accept their continued existence in human society. Until then I say we aggressively pursue and eradicate them wherever they surface.

And how would that not qualify as murder, of the exact same kind that Hitler and Stalin perpetrated? Are you a better person simply because it's not the same groups you are persecuting? You're advocating hunting down people for their opinions, ffs. If you were talking about punishing people for their actions I could agree with you. But as it stands, I cannot respect your position. But that doesn't mean I want to see you dead.

[Gerald]

Yes, in this case, he fully deserved some sort of legal repercussion. I think three years is extreme, though, unless most of it is suspended. The reason this guy deserved it is because he wasn't simply voicing his opinion, he was disturbing the peace and instigating to whatever mayhem he could.[/QUOTE]

He problabley get,nothing for what he did,but in the end his behavior,tell people be more careful in the futher,

[QUOTE=August;1437097]

Originally Posted by Kissaki

Hereditary sin?





When the Democrats deliberately murder 9 million people then you betcha.

Is the number growing?

[Gerald]

Yeshua is a requirement if hereditary sin is true,I say?