Gun Violence and the outlawing of firearms in America

[Schroeder]

So you need arms to defend yourself from the government?
How would the tyrannous government try to defend itself, ah right they'll use the military. So you will be standing there with your Ar15 and shoot....that M1A2....that AH64 Apache.....that M2 Bradley etc.
Your only chance would be that the military won't shoot at it's own people...and then even a 38 revolver will do the trick with your government. No use for full auto guns at all.

[NeonSamurai]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

So you need arms to defend yourself from the government?
How would the tyrannous government try to defend itself, ah right they'll use the military. So you will be standing there with your Ar15 and shoot....that M1A2....that AH64 Apache.....that M2 Bradley etc.
Your only chance would be that the military won't shoot at it's own people...and then even a 38 revolver will do the trick with your government. No use for full auto guns at all.

Shhh you will only encourage them to think they need anti tank missiles and stingers as civilian weapons, and that armed tanks should be legal road vehicles, and jet fighters civilian aircraft

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

So you need arms to defend yourself from the government? How would the tyrannous government try to defend itself, ah right they'll use the military. So you will be standing there with your Ar15 and shoot....that M1A2....that AH64 Apache.....that M2 Bradley etc.
Your only chance would be that the military won't shoot at it's own people...and then even a 38 revolver will do the trick with your government. No use for full auto guns at all.

as with most civil war scenarios - certain segments of the military tend to align with the plight of the citizens. Though this is not guaranteed.

I highly doubt you would see many "minute men" with a hunting rifle or a pistol and some Molotov cocktails standing off against a tank.

God knows im not that stupid.

what you would likely see in most modern insurrection / civil war / rebellion scenarios would be guerrilla style tactics and warfare of small forces organized against a much larger force. and sometimes, these small forces are organized by... you guessed it... ex military officers. (See United States Civil War circa 1861.)

this is part of the reason i have always viewed the oath of military personnel with a raised eye brow. The military is supposed to protect the United States from foreign and domestic enemies. They vow allegiance to the president of the United States - when IMHO they should be vowing that allegiance to the people. Why? what happens when a president and his party controlled congress decides we need to be a dictatorship and the military has sworn loyalty to the POTUS? Does that not make this hypothetical president and his congress a domestic enemy?

though i dont view such actions as an armed insurrection as necessary at the moment... there may come a day when such actions are necessary. (however unlikely) - but it wouldnt take many more Bush's and Barry's and congressional power grabs for such an action to become necessary in the minds of some people.

if that paints me as a "nut job" thats just unfortunate. I have been called worse. like i said... i dont condone or encourage insurrection... but im sure there was a time when Geroge Washington, or any of the founding fathers did not condone rebellion against the crown either.

trust me, there are people out there with much more liberal views on taking up arms against the feds... - I'm just not one of them... i just happen to know thats one reason the 2nd amendment exists in the first place.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

God knows im not that stupid.

if that paints me as a "nut job" thats just unfortunate.

I've never said I regard you as any of the above mentioned.
I still don't see you win this with rifles.

[Thomen]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

I still don't see you win this with rifles.

It is not just rifles.. never mind improvised weapons and explosives made out of stuff that is available in every supermarket.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

I've never said I regard you as any of the above mentioned.
I still don't see you win this with rifles.

oh i know you werent calling anyone stupid.

Im just sayin'

nope... not going to win with just rifles.

its like i told some guys once when we were debating this very same scenario.

the question was "What happens when you run out of ammo, or you run short of equipment?"

my comment was "If your running your fight correctly, there should be plenty if military grade equipment you can pick up off the ground."

I hate to say it but it would take a real fool to think that al quada for example - doesnt have a sh*t ton of US Military equipment in their caves.

[Tchocky]

Is it normal to have this kind of detailed discussion about civil warfare?
Seems a little weird from where I sit.

On a related note, the Irish Civil War started 88 years ago yesterday. Maybe in another 88 we'll have heard the end if it

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Tchocky

Is it normal to have this kind of detailed discussion about civil warfare?

loose interpretations of the 2nd amendment to the US Constitution as it was originally framed by a society emerging from post-revolution kind of steered the conversation in that direction i think.

personally, i think the right to defend one's self with lethal force - when justified - is a right that cannot be infringed upon by the state, firearms just happen to be the tool for such defense... thats more or less the point of the topic.

that and the classic oldie "guns dont kill people... people kill people."

our society is facing a lot of more pressing issues i think than anything relating to guns. and those more pressing issues should be dealt with.

in the mean time there are those who would demonize or criminalize gun owners... lumping gun owners and Christians into a basket of "weirdos" nut jobs and criminals or domestic terrorists... which is pretty far from the case

[CaptainHaplo]

Tchocky - is it normal?

Hmmm - I think that there has always been a discussion like this somewhere..... after all - there are always those who disagree with the direction the country is going. Doesn't matter which side your one politically, your not always going to be happy. Insurrection, revolution, whatever you want to call it, is a integral part of our national identity, its ingrained in who we are as a society to question our government and consider ways to make it conform to the wishes of the governed.

However, its important to note that we are talking not about actually doing anything - and in fact I think all of those who state that such action is legitimate ONLY under certain circumstances have made it clear that the criteria for such action has NOT been met - THANK GOD!

However, just as the founders had to consider the reality that their government would fail to address or resolve their grievances and what that would mean, patriots today must consider what the repercussions would be IF the government goes outside its legally defined role and turns on its society.