Report: Israel attacks flotilla, 10 die

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

nothing we did not know already.

Rules are rules, and subsim.com even does not have many. But at least those few rules there are, should be enforced. Disagreement and criticism is one thing, but hate speech like shown here is prohibited by the rules of this forum, simply that, and OTH additionally is a repeated, a frequent, a regular offender having just served another brig time and having displayed his extreme views of Germans (=Nazis) and Jews and Israelis (=bloodthirsty monsters) repeatedly, making his unacceptable behavior a habit .

A forum endlessly tolerating such behavior, does not gain something from doing so, but looses something. even more so when the offender never showed the smallest tendency to change himself for the better.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Rules are rules, and subsim.com even does not have many. But at least those few rules there are, should be enforced. Disagreement and criticism is one thing, but hate speech like shown here is prohibited by the rules of this forum, simply that, and OTH additionally is a repeated, a frequent, a regular offender having just served another brig time and having displayed his extreme views of Germans (=Nazis) and Jews and Israelis (=bloodthirsty monsters) repeatedly, making his unacceptable behavior a habit .

A forum endlessly tolerating such behavior, does not gain something from doing so, but looses something. even more so when the offender never showed the smallest tendency to change himself for the better.

It's almost as if he wants to be keelhauled...and yet when confronted with such, continually falls back on:

"Oh...I'm sorry...I thought this was a free country! Free speech!"

Ok I'll grant eskachig (sp) this, at least he said something like "someone might lose their job over this". That's something isn't it? Some poor Jew in the upper echelons of IDF will be booted out in these economic times. I mean, how cruel. All he did was basically cause the deaths of 10 + people plus several injured.

[Factor]

The UN is now condemning the attacks. But I doubt there will be any consequence or action taken by the UN.

The UN is now condemning the attacks. But I doubt there will be any consequence or action taken by the UN.

The UN have been condemning the attack since the news broke, just as they have been condemning aspects of the "blockade" since it was introduced .
As for consequences, any UNSC action will have to rely on America not using the veto. While in the past this veto has been taken as par for the course things are changing, as the head of Mossad said to the Knesset this morning, the frequent screw ups and bullheadedness are turning Israel into a real liability for America.

On a wider note its quite amazing how so many have lined up to parrot the Israeli propoganda and attempt justifying the unjustifyable while Israels media is full of articles by Isrealis lambasting their government and military for the sheer stupidity of their actions in relation to the convoy and the blockade.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

On a wider note its quite amazing how so many have lined up to parrot the Israeli propoganda and attempt justifying the unjustifyable while Israels media is full of articles by Isrealis lambasting their government and military for the sheer stupidity of their actions in relation to the convoy and the blockade.

Dont start with the insulting insinuations or this thread will degenerate quickly. It is possible for us to make up our own mind based on the "facts" even over something as volatile as middle east politics.

Israel is not always 100% guilty and the Palestinians are not always blameless. The truth, as usual, lies somewhere in between.

The elusive goal is, as always, peace, but that elusive goal seems to be getting more and more elusive each year as the position hardens on each side.

What insulting insinuations?

The elusive goal is, as always, peace, but that elusive goal seems to be getting more and more elusive each year as the position hardens on each side.

The goal is getting more and more elusive as Isreal needs to negotiate from a position of strength, these past twenty years and more have seen the State repeatedly weaken itself through the stupidity of its own actions.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

On a wider note its quite amazing how so many have lined up to parrot the Israeli propoganda and attempt justifying the unjustifyable while Israels media is full of articles by Isrealis lambasting their government and military for the sheer stupidity of their actions in relation to the convoy and the blockade.

Well... we are liberal democracy too so there are many different opinions. None of the movies you see on utube are propaganda even the first pictures that came live on Turkish TV showed IDF soldiers clubbed with metal pipes by angry mob.The real peace activist that where on other ships did not use violence.
It is true that same newspapers expressed anger that our government and IDF fell in this premeditated trap but its kind of benign the wisest after the case.I hope the lesson was learned and the next ships will be stooped by other means-no no i dont mean by bombing them to hell.

None of the movies you see on utube are propaganda

Who said anything about movies?

It is true that same newspapers expressed anger that our government and IDF fell in this premeditated trap but its kind of benign the wisest after the case.

Its true that some newspapers have been saying this PR disaster is exactly what was going to happen ever since the journey was announced, so it isn't a case of being wise after the incident at all as they have been saying it for weeks.

[tater]

From a column at National Review—some useful bullet point facts:

Fact: Israel imposed a blockade of Gaza to prevent weapons from reaching the radical Islamic regime there that continues to make war on Israeli civilians. Egypt too has blockaded the strip, hoping to choke off weapons to Hamas, which it views as a threat.

Fact: Humanitarian relief is delivered to Gaza from Israel on a daily basis. During the first three months of this year, 94,500 tons of supplies were transferred to Gaza from Israel, including 48,000 tons of food products; 40,000 tons of wheat; 2,760 tons of rice; 1,987 tons of clothes and footwear; and 553 tons of milk powder and baby food for the strip’s 1.5 million inhabitants. Representatives of international aid groups and the United Nations move freely to and from the Gaza Strip.

Fact: Upon learning of the intentions of the Gaza flotilla, the Israeli government asked the organizers to deliver their humanitarian aid first to an Israeli port where it would be inspected (for weapons) before being forwarded to Gaza. The organizers refused. “There are two possible happy endings,” a Muslim activist on board explained, “either we will reach Gaza or we will achieve martyrdom.”

Fact: The flotilla ignored multiple instructions from Israeli navy ships to change course and follow them to the Israeli port of Ashdod.

Fact: On board one of the ships, according to al-Jazeera, the “humanitarian” Palestinians sang “Khaybar, Khaybar, oh Jews, the army of Muhammad will return” — a reference to the 628 massacre of Jews in Arabia at the hands of Muhammad.

Fact: The flotilla’s participants included the IHH, a “humanitarian relief fund” based in Turkey that has close ties to Hamas and to global jihadi groups in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Chechnya, and elsewhere, and which has also organized relief to anti-U.S. Islamic radicals in Fallujah, Iraq. A French intelligence report suggests that IHH has provided documents to terrorists, permitting them to pose as relief workers. Among the other cheerleaders — former British MP and Saddam Hussein pal George Galloway, all-purpose America and Israel hater Noam Chomsky, and John Ging, head of UNRWA, the U.N.’s agency for Palestinian support.

Fact: When the family of Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier who was kidnapped during a cross-border raid by Hamas in 2006, offered to support the flotilla if, in exchange, they would agree to ask Hamas to permit international agencies to visit their son, they were rebuffed.

Fact: When Israeli commandos rappelled down ropes to the deck of the Mavi Marmara, they were assaulted and beaten with metal poles and baseball bats by the Palestinians on board. (It’s available on theisraelproject.org).

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Rules are rules, and subsim.com even does not have many. But at least those few rules there are, should be enforced. Disagreement and criticism is one thing, but hate speech like shown here is prohibited by the rules of this forum, simply that, and OTH additionally is a repeated, a frequent, a regular offender having just served another brig time and having displayed his extreme views of Germans (=Nazis) and Jews and Israelis (=bloodthirsty monsters) repeatedly, making his unacceptable behavior a habit .

A forum endlessly tolerating such behavior, does not gain something from doing so, but looses something. even more so when the offender never showed the smallest tendency to change himself for the better.

I would let the mods sort this out. If I got upset over every anti-semite I meet, I would be upset pretty often...