tactical question vis-a-vis historical/realistic

[schlechter pfennig]

Originally Posted by Capt. Morgan

Historic or not - I cannot say, but in SHIII's world, the instant you reveal your self to the enemy (through exploding torpedos for instance) every ship with searchlights will turn them on, and the escorts will fire star-shells, turning the night into day. You don't want to be on the surface at that time.

Quite the prophet I see!

I'd stay submerged, listening to the escort (a nasty Black Swan at that) slowly cruise by, then altered course back and forth a bit to insinuate myself between lanes. I used the hydrophone and periscope to do that, but all I 'let myself see' with the periscope were shadowy blobs that at least let me estimate my position.

There was a huge ship right in the front, which sorta sucked as that meant the lead escort was pretty close, too. When I estimated the range to be under 1,000 meters I surfaced as I turned, and when I reached the bridge my main target (which turned out to be a large cargo ship! Whoo-hoo!) was 400 meters right in front of me and as close to 90 degrees AoB as to make no difference.

I fired off my last two fore tubes at her then looked behind me. A smaller merchant was just passing astern, so I aimed at her. Before I could really even start computing anything *Boom!* *Boom!* so I took a snapshot, called for a ninety degree course change taking me through the convoy and their rear and went to ahead flank.

Next thing I knew I had about 15 searchlights spotlighting me. And an upset Black Swan engaging me! Let me tell you, situations like those make me long for the halcyon days of my old VIIB, cuz crash-diving in an IXB seems to take forever!

End result was a sunk large cargo and a damaged medium cargo, and the escorts never did come close to me!

('Course, I somehow 'spect that, come late '42 and onwards, that ain't gonna be that easy no moh!)

[Capt. Morgan]

Originally Posted by schlechter pfennig

...

Next thing I knew I had about 15 searchlights spotlighting me. And an upset Black Swan engaging me! Let me tell you, situations like those make me long for the halcyon days of my old VIIB, cuz crash-diving in an IXB seems to take forever!
....)

Oh man, what a situation for a type IX Kauleun to find himself in!

Congratulations on the tonnage, the story, and especially on surviving. I think you could use a mod that turns your crews hair white as the patrol progresses.

Two points that you may or may not be aware of...

1) Even in the early war, tankers can be armed with large caliber deck guns (not the 20mm pop-guns usually found on merchies).

2) Large convoys will sometimes have a full battleship escorting them - located right in the middle. They put out a lot of fire (like 16 guns at once if you're unlucky enough to be on their broadside) and they're really good shots.

[schlechter pfennig]

Originally Posted by Capt. Morgan

Oh man, what a situation for a type IX Kauleun to find himself in!

Congratulations on the tonnage, the story, and especially on surviving. I think you could use a mod that turns your crews hair white as the patrol progresses.

Two points that you may or may not be aware of...

1) Even in the early war, tankers can be armed with large caliber deck guns (not the 20mm pop-guns usually found on merchies).

2) Large convoys will sometimes have a full battleship escorting them - located right in the middle. They put out a lot of fire (like 16 guns at once if you're unlucky enough to be on their broadside) and they're really good shots.

I wasn't aware of the first one, no, but I was aware of the second, having twice encountered just that. I was pretty sure that wasn't the case this time, though, as I'd had a bit of time to do a very slow, very thorough manual hydrophone sweep, and the screw sounds of a BB are quite unmistakable.

And I dunno about the crews hair turning white, but my skivvies had certainly turned brown!

[schlechter pfennig]

Ok, now this is just truly hysterical.

Sept 5, 1940, I and my valiant crew are on the way to DJ12 when, in CG42 at 0129 we receive a contact report: large enemy convoy.

Plotting it we're less than 40km away, with them heading right towards us on their SE course. Plotting an intercept we arrive and spot them less than 30 minutes later.

Again I'm on the surface, and again I decide to go to periscope depth as a black swan meanders my way. This time, however . . .

Something starts sounding weird as I follow them on the hydrophone so I decide to take a quick peek with the observation 'scope, and my jaw drops (as do a few choice words) as I see the entire convoy going through a course change! Instead of heading reasonably right towards me, they've appeared to have altered course about 45 degrees at a point around 3 - 4km ahead of my position. Sheisse!

Don't have a lot of choice here, so I gradually bring us up, surface and go to ahead standard at decks awash. Somehow --no idea how-- I approach the port outside lane to within 1,500 meters.

Around 3KM I can unmistakably identify the silouhette of a large tanker and I start getting buck fever. I have two G7a and two G7e in the fore tubes, and one each in the aft. This really sucks as I also have, closer, what appears to be a large cargo and a large merchant, the cargo in the outermost lane adjacent to me and the merchant the next one in.

Coming to a dead stop I start trying to calculate eel run times. Not exactly easy to do when you're expecting that nasty escort to notice your conning tower bobbing up and down at any minute.

I'm still not sure how I managed it, but I fired both G7e at the tanker, counted down the seconds, fired the first G7a at the merchant, counted down again before finally firing the last G7a at the large cargo, which was now dead ahead of me and less than 800 meters away.

Having learned my searchlight lesson from before (see above! ) I immediately dove and turned, and was just going under when the first torpedo exploded. In fact, all four exploded within 15 seconds of each other!

Now here is where is starts getting hysterical. I'm at 30 meters when I start hearing from above the unmistakable sounds of main guns firing. I figgered they were firing star shells but, after hearing ten rounds, I went 'Huh?'. So I peeked up using external and started laughing.

There were, yes, star shells above. Probably at least twenty. But every escort but one (and one of the bigger merchants) were all firing all the way to the other side, at some poor dumb warship!

Don't know what the outcome of that was, but it gave me a lot more time to duck and run!

[Jimbuna]

I'd have to agree with Hitman and add...

My question is . . . is this a realistic and/or historical tactic? I know night surface attacks are, but were there ever instances where U-boats stayed submerged only to abruptly surface once in attack range?

IMHO that is very much unrealistic, a kaleun would not heighten the chances of losing the element of suprise prior to launching his initial attack.

[schlechter pfennig]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I'd have to agree with Hitman and add... IMHO that is very much unrealistic, a kaleun would not heighten the chances of losing the element of suprise prior to launching his initial attack.

Well darn and drat. And here I was feeling all warm and fuzzy about two successful surface attacks.

OK, general consensus seems to be do whatever it took to manuever on the surface, still remain (hopefully) undetected while keeping course options open to run in for the attack, yes?

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by schlechter pfennig

Well darn and drat. And here I was feeling all warm and fuzzy about two successful surface attacks.

OK, general consensus seems to be do whatever it took to manuever on the surface, still remain (hopefully) undetected while keeping course options open to run in for the attack, yes?

Either that or remain submerged and see the initial attck through whilst being prepared to crash dive deeper if the escorts go active and are headed in your direction.