Hey Ubi, consider this...

[Sonarman]

I dont know how true the figures are but in this month's PC Format magazine (UK) they quoted the ELSPA figures rellating to Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 and they looked pretty bleak for the PC Platform...

PC Sales: 300,000
PC pirated downloads: 4,100,000
Console sales: 6,000,000
Console pirated downloads: 970,000

Call of Duty was selling at a ratio of 1 PC to 10 console titles

9.78 million games were downloaded illegally in Dec 2009 alone.

What percentage of SH5 copies are stolen is anyone's guess.

[theluckyone17]

If you consider the following off-topic, you might want to read it a second time.

My favorite band is Gaelic Storm. I have a $15 Rhapsody To Go subscription, which means I stream all the music I want, or download it directly to my MP3 player. I'm not sure how much of a cut GS gets from my subscription, but it's probably not much.

Last Thursday, they played Revolution Hall in Troy, NY. Troy's better days have come and gone, and it's been described as the armpit (or worse) of the country. And yet, GS still came and played. I got off work early, camped outside the doors for an hour or so until they opened, paid $23 in cash for my ticket. Grabbed an Oatmeal Stout from the bar ($4.50, locally brewed by Brown... good stuff, by the way) and waited in the standing room only for an hour or so.

GS got up on stage, played their hearts out, ten feet from me. It was AWESOME. For a couple hours, I sang, screamed, stomped, clamped, and did the "Standing Darcy Donkey Run" with the rest of the crowd. All that hooting and hollering tore my voice out, but it was worth it.

Afterwards, I spent $25 on a t-shirt. Their new album comes out in August, and I will spend $15 on it, regardless of my Rhapsody subscription or not. Rumor is, they might hit the Irish Festival in Altamont later this summer. If they do, I'll be there. I'll buy another t-shirt (maybe two).

For those of you who don't still don't get it after reading it twice through, GS gets my hard earned cash. It's not just about the music... I already get that through Rhapsody. It's because they've earned my fanaticism... if that's a word. They're great live entertainers. They provide additional products alongside their music that can't be pirated (haven't heard of someone on the black market selling GS t-shirts, at least ).

So c'mon, Ubi... there's a whole forum full of fanatics that love SH. That should be evident. Step up to the plate, and find some way to separate us from our cash in a way that makes me feel like GS does... like you earned it!

[Takao]

theluckyone17,

Ubi has come up with a way to separate you from your cash
Its called Silent Hunter V!

1/2 a game for full price! No Type II, IX, or XXI. Game ends in'43, when the war ended in '45. Its SHIII with prettier graphics, but a lot less content, Big deal...

If I wanted to play a Type VII only game I'd play "Danger from the Deep", and its free!

That's why I voted with my wallet. As much as I enjoyed SHIII and SHIV, I have no motivation to play SHV.



wetwarev7,

Average retail markup is about 50%. So if local big box store is charging $50 for a hard copy, Ubi is probably only seeing $25 or less. Having helped run a gaming store, long since defunct, we would get games from a wholesaler for, say $20, then sell them for $40. So, if the wholesaler was marking up the games at 50%, then the gaming company would be selling them at $10. Although, i don't know what wholesalers mark up their product at. Also, I don't know if the big box stores are going through a wholesaler or dealing directly with Ubi. Still, I don't see Ubi getting $40 as their cut on a game. Finally, I don't know what the business model is for downloaded games. How is that cash spread around, seeing that it is just data being transferred, with no real hard copy to produce, box, and ship. You would think downloaded games would be much cheaper than they are, since your cutting out the middle man and there is little overhead concerning production costs of a product.

[kylania]

Originally Posted by theluckyone17

They provide additional products alongside their music that can't be pirated (haven't heard of someone on the black market selling GS t-shirts, at least ).

That's really the key to fighting piracy of games, music, movies and whatever else. Give us something that MAKES us want to buy a product and we will. Treat us like criminals and constantly slap us in the face with "don't pirate this or else" warnings and restrictions and we won't WANT to buy the product.

If every game came with a nice solid quality and accurate manual instead of a slip of paper telling us to read the childishly horrific PDF, real cloth maps instead of tatters of string loosely glued together, laminated keymaps instead of tissue paper sheets and Quality Tested software instead of crunched out bug fests I bet it would do more for fighting piracy than OSP ever could hope to.

[Placoderm]

Originally Posted by kylania

That's really the key to fighting piracy of games, music, movies and whatever else. Give us something that MAKES us want to buy a product and we will. Treat us like criminals and constantly slap us in the face with "don't pirate this or else" warnings and restrictions and we won't WANT to buy the product.

If every game came with a nice solid quality and accurate manual instead of a slip of paper telling us to read the childishly horrific PDF, real cloth maps instead of tatters of string loosely glued together, laminated keymaps instead of tissue paper sheets and Quality Tested software instead of crunched out bug fests I bet it would do more for fighting piracy than OSP ever could hope to.

I Couldn't have said it better, Kylania! Thats one of the things that has continued to bug me about new releases...the total lack of any tangilbe hard goods in the package. I have literally hundreds of PC games going back to the late 1980's, and the one thing that really sticks out is the huge manuals, maps, and just plain cool stuff that came with them. Stuff you could'nt pirate...Stuff that makes me still keep the games to this day, even though I can no longer play them.

I have printed ship recognition manuals with a leather-like binding that served as copy-protection for one of them...I think it was Silent Hunter 1 or Silent Service 2 (but I am too lazy to check right now). I still use the fold-out KM map from SH3 and sometimes just for kicks I pull out the hard-back 3-ring binder that made both the manual and the packaging for Falcon 4.0.

Publishers like Ubisoft and EA Games have made it easier for the pirates by eliminating the tangible treasures that used to be considered standard in older titles...and in doing so have really hurt both the consumer and more importantly, themselves.

Pirates would generally never bother to re-print a nice thick manual...but give them a digital PDF 'manual' and "click", it's done and distributed in an instant. I really no longer fault the pirates...I fault the publishers who, out of their own laziness and greed have made the pirates job easier...and the honest consumers reward ever smaller and harder to find.

[daft]

While I do love the printed, thick manual and other stuff, increased production values is probably not a viable option for the PC platform at the moment. The sales aren't great and increased production values will simply be to costly and in the end it would be the consumer that has to carry the burden with a sharp increase in sales price. I doubt that would stimulate the PC market to any great extent. Unfortunately.

The publishers seem to struggle with finding a proper way of dealing with the PC market. The most obvious choice is to spend a lot fighting piracy, but as we all no, a illegally downloaded copy does not equate to a lost sale. The PC consumer base is extremely sensitive to any sort of sales control forced upon them by the supplier, so I struggle to see how this deadlock will be resolved. I doubt we'll see the death of PC gaming any time soon. Maybe the answer lies in producing sim friendly peripherals to consoles so hardcore sims become a viable solution for the console market. But I sincerely doubt there is much support for such a scheme in the sim community or the marketing department at the publishers.

[wetwarev7]

Originally Posted by kylania

If every game came with a nice solid quality and accurate manual instead of a slip of paper telling us to read the childishly horrific PDF, real cloth maps instead of tatters of string loosely glued together, laminated keymaps instead of tissue paper sheets and Quality Tested software instead of crunched out bug fests I bet it would do more for fighting piracy than OSP ever could hope to.

I think this is a really good point. One of the reasons I buy games a the store instead of online is to get a paper manual. Or at least it used to be. I can't remember the last time I got an actual paper manual that discussed the game.

Anyways, without little items like a real map or paper manual, there is less incentive to buy a legit copy at a store. The reason I think this is important is that buying and downloading a game online is really only a click away from just downloading the game (without the buying).

If I were a software company, I'd stick with store sales only and include things like paper manuals, maps and pewter figurines that can't be easily transmitted over the internet.

Heck, remember when you used to have to pull up a certain page from the manual and type in word three, from paragraph four? Why not include a better version of that that can't be scanned, like a decoder ring or something?

Or heck, why not a freakin USB hardware key?

<Sigh>

[jason210]

Originally Posted by wetwarev7

I think this is a really good point. One of the reasons I buy games a the store instead of online is to get a paper manual. Or at least it used to be. I can't remember the last time I got an actual paper manual that discussed the game.

Those days are long gone! You only need to walk into GAME - you'll find just two stacks of shelves with PC games - and half of that is for World of Warcraft stuff. The rest of the place is full of Wii ****.

The game on CD DVD is a thing of the past - it's all DLC and the big corporations are just waiting for the Internet badnwidth to catch up so they can centralise it more - rather like digital TV companies do.

[Phantom Mark]

Originally Posted by jason210

Those days are long gone! You only need to walk into GAME - you'll find just two stacks of shelves with PC games - and half of that is for World of Warcraft stuff. The rest of the place is full of Wii ****.

The game on CD DVD is a thing of the past - it's all DLC and the big corporations are just waiting for the Internet badnwidth to catch up so they can centralise it more - rather like digital TV companies do.

As I am sure you know this is nothing new, PC titles have been thin on the ground for the past 3 years in all the major UK outlets, in fact I would suggest the past 5 years has shown a very significant downturn in on the shelf titles, PC world is pretty much the largest stockists of FSX addons now

[wetwarev7]

Originally Posted by jason210

Those days are long gone! You only need to walk into GAME - you'll find just two stacks of shelves with PC games - and half of that is for World of Warcraft stuff. The rest of the place is full of Wii ****.

You need to stop going there for PC games. Try Bestbuy. It's still only 2 shelves, but the shelves are bigger....


Seriously though, which way will the trend end up when all is said and done? On the one hand, you've got corporate suits that think using the internet for everything is the 'wave of the future' and therefore MUST be the answer, and on the other you've got reality with hardware keys and stuff the customer wants to pay for. Hopefully the current trend will reverse itself sooner rather than later, as most trends tend to do.

If I may misquote a wise old sage with a bald head and yellow skin:
Ah, the Internet. The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems...

[kylania]

Originally Posted by wetwarev7

I think this is a really good point. One of the reasons I buy games a the store instead of online is to get a paper manual. Or at least it used to be. I can't remember the last time I got an actual paper manual that discussed the game.

It's like Ubisoft is reading our minds and totally ignoring what we want...

Ubisoft Doing Away with Printed Manuals

Ubisoft's digital game manuals will provide multiple benefits for the player and the environment. Including the game manual directly in the game will offer the player easier and more intuitive access to game information, as well as allow Ubisoft to provide gamers with a more robust manual.

(emphasis added)

[janh]

Originally Posted by kylania

It's like Ubisoft is reading our minds and totally ignoring what we want...

Ubisoft Doing Away with Printed Manuals

(emphasis added)

Good find! If they cut the price of their games by 50% in return then it would be fine, but for >=40$ is still have to think back to my old Aces of the Pacific, Aces of the Deep or Jane's Longbow printed manuals with 100s of informative and educative pages...

I think they are presently pressing forward quite fast to get to a pay-as-play games basis with monthly user fee per title or so. Then you'd already have conditioned your customers to purely digital manuals. I'd be really surprised if my notion is wrong here and it is just to save cost, or even if it were really the s*t they keep telling people... robust... LOL

[wetwarev7]

Originally Posted by Sonarman

I dont know how true the figures are but in this month's PC Format magazine (UK) they quoted the ELSPA figures rellating to Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 and they looked pretty bleak for the PC Platform...

PC Sales: 300,000
PC pirated downloads: 4,100,000
Console sales: 6,000,000
Console pirated downloads: 970,000

I really, really doubt those figures are accurate. According to those numbers, that would mean 93.2% of all PC copies are pirated. That just doesn't sound very plausible.

I've said it in other threads, I'd have more sympathy for the game companies if I thought their 'figures' were accurate, or even just unbiased. I buy my games, every one of them, and I really don't think I'm in the minority.

[kylania]

Originally Posted by wetwarev7

I really, really doubt those figures are accurate. According to those numbers, that would mean 93.2% of all PC copies are pirated. That just doesn't sound very plausible.

Plausible or not, it's what they'd like you to believe.

[janh]

Originally Posted by kylania

Plausible or not, it's what they'd like you to believe.

Nice summary of the GAO article. Hopefully time for alledgements is passing an industries start to take a closer look at what they are doing. For most of them sales have dramatically increased in the last 5 years (with exception of the economic downturn year 2009), also Ubisofts. Technically they don't have anything to complain, except if they'd want to rip of customer even worse than now.

I agree that if they want(ed) to fare better (and see piracy decrease), then they should start delivering valuable products again. No "beta releases" with serious patching already expected in the first month, add manuals that are interesting, informative and even educative again, and add some nice gimmicks like a good KM-Map. Add new features to your software, instead of just polishing the graphics and thereby remove older features that people are used to from predecessors (such as other sub types, 43-45, etc). Advancement means to deliver more, not less! Or why could you expect anyone to buy a new edition of a book that lost half the original chapters???

I think software industry is whining on a very high (success) level, and it is doing so because in the past decade it hasn't be questioned, criticized or "shaken up". They have experiments with a lot of "nasty" things on customers, and they have gotten through with it. So, they learned that they can go even further...

PS. What really annoys me is actually not that they keep delivering "sub par" quality software for a quality software price. That's their problem, and they can do so as long as they can find someone to buy it. I won't, but enough people will fall for it. But if their sales suffer from that, then they ought to attribute it to the right reason (themselves), and not just point fingers at some easily attackable entity ("pirates", "used sellers",...). And then even have the loyal customers suffer this nonsense.

And I really hope we'll soon see a "2nd SHV release date" -- the no-DRM release...