Collateral Murder (merged)

[Fader_Berg]

Originally Posted by Oberon

You do realise that most of the purple hearts issued today were quite likely from the five hundred thousand that were made in preparation for Operation Downfall? It's hard to tell whether or not the casualties of Operation Downfall would have exceeded that of the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but considering that at least seven nuclear weapons would have been used or available to be used during Operation Downfall, it could be argued that the civilian deaths alone would be three times higher. The devastation would not have been limited to two cities either it would have been distributed equally across the whole continent.
Very much a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea, but an invasion of Japan would have been monstrous for both sides.

Nice hypothesis... We'll never know, do we. We could have spare at least 350.000 civilian lives too. And I don't care if you're republican or democrat, by the way. Not the least...

Originally Posted by Rapto1

200,000? I think the highest estimates don't go over 150,000.
Regardless, the bombing saved many more lives than they caused.

I have proved you wrong then, haven't I. We can dispute the numbers, but it is one hell of a impressive detah toll within hours. You've just got to admit that.
I disagree over the necessarity of it all. Japan was already defeated. There wasn't much more for them to do. They didn't pose any direct threat to the US or any surrouning countries since almost the whole country was in ruins. It might had been hard to invade Japan at the time. But they had no fair option other than to surrender in the long run. I think lives could have been spared if they choosed to wait them out.
Now, there is no news that USA makes their vengence and benefit priority number one. We've seen it time after time in history. No human life without a US citizenchip (or their allies) are worth ****. That's pretty much what this video shows.

Have a nice day.

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by Fader_Berg

I have proved you wrong then, haven't I. We can dispute the numbers, but it is one hell of a impressive detah toll within hours. You've just got to admit that.
I disagree over the necessarity of it all. Japan was already defeated. There wasn't much more for them to do. They didn't pose any direct threat to the US or any surrouning countries since almost the whole country was in ruins. It might had been hard to invade Japan at the time. But they had no fair option other than to surrender in the long run. I think lives could have been spared if they choosed to wait them out.
Now, there is no news that USA makes their vengence and benefit priority number one. We've seen it time after time in history. No human life without a US citizenchip (or their allies) are worth ****. That's pretty much what this video shows.

Have a nice day.

You have not proven anything wrong. The bombing of Tokyo on the night of March 10th, 1945 caused over 100,000 deaths alone, which is quite a bit more than the highest casualty estimate on either of the atomic bombs.

Waiting it out? You mean staving the Japanese home islands by blockade and continuing the conventional bombing which has killed far more people than the Atomic bombs? This would still have caused more casualties...

Also, don't forget that the Soviets had plans of their own and, had the US not invaded or performed anything to end the war, you can be sure the Soviets would have, likely causing massive casualties as well...

[CaptainHaplo]

Originally Posted by Fader_Berg

I disagree over the necessarity of it all. Japan was already defeated. But they had no fair option other than to surrender in the long run. I think lives could have been spared if they choosed to wait them out.

So what your saying is - instead of ending the war - ending the suffering of the entire nation by forcing the surrender - we should have just parked our subs around the island and sunk anything going into it.... meaning more lives on ships lost - not to mention the prolonged agony of what would have amounted to the complete and total destruction of the economy, including food. So instead of making the war end quickly, we should have let untold numbers of those same innocent civilians suffer and starve to death while they waited for the the military heirarchy to throw in the towel....

Yea... that makes lots of sense....

[tater]

Japanese civilians were already quite literally eating sawdust by the early summer of 1945.

Every day the war went on many people died. Every day. If the weather was suitable for a B-29 raid, maybe only a few thousand beyond starvation, maybe many more.

When the Malaya invasion would have happened, many would have been murdered in cold blood by the japs (mostly native populations, but tens of thousands of europeans as well).

If you want to compare japanese murder to area bombing, figure out how many we killed AFTER Japan surrendered. We know that is "none." The japs killed millions of civilians after they had capitulated. That makes all the difference in the world.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by Fader_Berg

Now, there is no news that USA makes their vengence and benefit priority number one. We've seen it time after time in history. No human life without a US citizenchip (or their allies) are worth ****. That's pretty much what this video shows.

Have a nice day.

What if i said the Swedes are cowards that havent been in a war since 1812 even there have been morally justified reasons to go to war.

And that Sweden has only had its own benefit in mind kissing up who ever seems to be the strongest power at the given moment.

Since WW2 ended that has been USA btw.

But i dont really label all Swedes and the country like that and i think you shouldnt concerning USA.

Have a nice day.