Advice please

Just got into Lorient from patrol d. 1. november 1941.

Radar, and Escort experiences of late.

The escorts have moved out to the limits of visibility from the convoys of late. This means that one can NOT hold visible contact with the merchants any longer. (They're finaly getting smart.) Side escorts have been operating between 5000 and 7000 meters out.

All lead escorts of late, seem to have radar. Particularly Clemson Class Destroyers!
My bridge watch don't see them coming. It is gereraly I who spot them coming at about 2000 meters. They have to know I'm there, as they are coming bow on at VERY HIGH SPEED.

These ex-US Destroyers HAVE to be fitted with Radar.
There is no other possible explanation, and it's happenned too often to be coinsidental.

Night Surface Attacks are no longer a good idé.
Aircraft aren't a common thing Mid-Atlantic yet, so "frequent" long range hydrophone checks can be used as an aid.

Trying to put oneself in a position where the convoy will "trip over you" is the only hope.

Once the sky fills with aircraft, in many cases, you'll either be in the right place at the right time, or you won't.

I also concur that poor visibility is no longer youre friend.
My boat just got jumped in BF42. (Recharging battery at night - medium fog.)
The first word I got was, "We're under attack, sir!"
He had to have had Radar tyed into his Fire Control.
Good thing he decided to use it beyond our visual range. Otherwise we would have been rammed.
My IXC did manage to get down with the ASW vessel still at medium range, per my hydrophone operator.

[Doolar]

i'm with Flopper ... no luck with large convoys ... i get too far ahead then they change directions on me and then I'm out of postiion ... or I get detected ... the tips above are just what the doctor ordered ... THANX ALL ! It's still early in the war for me ( May 1940 ) , but as I progress , I'll need to learn these skills .... Jerry

[Hitman]

Actually I would disagree that bad weather is a friend late in the war. Since all of your surface sensors are inferior to most fitted on escorts and aircraft you are forced to close the range, increasing the risk of being acquired and making evasion that much more difficult.

Humm may be that's because I have more experience with NYGM, and I could swear that it makes waves more noticeable, or may be it's the aspect. As long as they do not have centimetric one installed, but the one meter wavelength one, you can get as close as 4000 metres in rough waves if you keep a small silhouette, I have experienced that.

Anyway, I have readed in Blair's book several accounts of surface attacks -from longer ranges- in late 1943 due to bad weather and imprecission of older models of radar still installed on ships, so it should be realistic in any case. Not the norm, but possible.

[pickinthebanjo]

Originally Posted by Snestorm

All lead escorts of late, seem to have radar. Particularly Clemson Class Destroyers!
I spot them coming at about 2000 meters, they are coming bow on at VERY HIGH SPEED.

Trying to put oneself in a position where the convoy will "trip over you" is the only hope.

I was wondering how well those destroyers dodge torpedoes when in attack run?

Also thats the tactic that I use to intercept convoys, how well does it work in the later years? when I know im in there path I cut engines and run silent.

Originally Posted by pickinthebanjo

I was wondering how well those destroyers dodge torpedoes when in attack run?

Also thats the tactic that I use to intercept convoys, how well does it work in the later years? when I know im in there path I cut engines and run silent.

Destoyers & Torpedoes:
It would seem from reading posts, that SH3 destroyers in attack mode, don't dodge torpedoes very well. The real world was something quite different.
1: All USN, and probably RN, warships went through degausing (demagnification).
(Anybody interested in doing a Sam Dealy "down the throat shot" with impacts?)
2: Destroyers carry, use, and understand torpedoes. They'll sway a bit on the way in.
(He'll either try to pass over and slightly ahead of you stern to bow, at a 45 degree angle for a DC run OR, ram you broadside.)
ONE UBOAT WAS EVEN SUNK BY A DESTROYER USING TORPEDOES.
On another torpedo note, the german homing torpedoes, in reality, had a 30% success rate. In SH3 they seem to do better.

Your tactic will be about the only way to get within short to medium range of a convoy. But be forwarned, it becomes a real war of nerves to hang in there. The downside is that being aggressive enough to win the war of nerves, can lead to loosing the war of staying alive. Unfortunately, this stage has a habit of sneeking up on us, without our forknowledge that we entered it.

Cutting the engines is something I don't do, but to each is own.
(I prefer my turns at 90 RPM in silent mode).

[derrinurban]

Originally Posted by Doolar Semler

i'm with Flopper ... no luck with large convoys ... i get too far ahead then they change directions on me and then I'm out of postiion ... or I get detected ... the tips above are just what the doctor ordered ... THANX ALL ! It's still early in the war for me ( May 1940 ) , but as I progress , I'll need to learn these skills .... Jerry

This I am sure has happened to us all. Like I said do not try to force a bad attack. Unless you are starting to get too close to the shallows around England, plot the new course and swing around for another run at them. I used to have this situation alot when I would try and plot the convoy course and rush to where they will be at nightime. I have changed things up and now just plot an intercept course and stay ahead of them at about the 2 (or 10) o'clock position. I try to match their speed and do hourly or 2 hour periscope depth hydrophone checks to make sure I am still in good position. As nightime comes I set up for hunting. In this way if they change course I can react and never get to far out of position.

Originally Posted by pickinthebanjo

Also thats the tactic that I use to intercept convoys, how well does it work in the later years? when I know im in there path I cut engines and run silent.

Early on in the war I have sat at 25m directly in the convoy path, middle of the day and had destroyers pass right over me and attack from within the convoy. Later on, this would be absolute suicide. If I recall, the sonar range of destroyers is somewhere around 2 kms and beyond that is hydrophones. So as a rule I try and stay at least 1500 - 2000 meters away from the lead destroyer. Running silent, they will have a hard time detecting me unless I make a grevious error. After he passes in front of me I can use his dead zone to get into a closer position.