[WIP] Cold War Mod

Herr Kaleun · 03-24-10, 01:01 PM

Has anybody the download link for this german klasse 206 sub?

In the russian thread is the link down.

Zel · 03-25-10, 03:46 PM

I'm working on a mod to implement basic cold war functionality to sh4. The game has many limitations, and realism is not possible, but I believe that challenging gameplay is possible. First, a big thank-you to DarkFish for the AI Launched Torpedoes mod. This was the starting point.

Completed features:
AI submarines and surface ships are able to launch torpedoes at the player while he is submerged. For a torpedo launch, a visual detection is necessary. The AI unit needs to be able to "see" underwater. The trick is, to get the visual sensor to behave like a hydrophone would. The influence of day/night and fog needs to be minimized. I got surprisingly good results! This modification affects surface warfare, but there are workarounds. One side effect is night vision for surface ships.

AI Launched mines: A torpedo is used to simulate a mine. A shallow mine is easy, but a deep mine is a problem - any time compression will mess it up. Because of this, a large proximity radius could be used. The mines have their own hyd_sound. A type of ping can be used, to simulate mine detecting sonar (heard at short range).

AI torpedo attack: The ai cannot determine player's depth, and each torpedo has it's own fixed depth. Again, a large proximity radius can be used to cover a lot of ground. Also, it's possible to have a deep, shallow and "middle" torpedo launcher. The modder can decide which one to mount (or all three, if desired). There was a lot of tuning done to the torpedo launchers to increase their accuracy. A salvo option is available, since the player can easily evade one torpedo.

Player submerged attack: The player can use his sonar ping freely, because the AI doesn't hear it (try it). There is a method to determine the exact depth of a target, using sonar. Thanks to homing torpedoes, a precise solution isn't necessary. The player will match his depth to the target's depth, and launch a fixed-depth torpedo. It stays at launch depth. There are also regular torpedoes, which go to their pre-set depth (in the sim file).

Air launched torpedoes/mines: this one is still somewhat buggy, but it's fun to watch planes decimate a convoy with torpedoes.

Extensible surface radar: replaces one of the periscopes.

Failed to complete:

Agressive behaviour of AI subs: the subs are pretty dumb. They have "merchant" behaviour: follow waypoints,zigzag and shoot. I've tried to make them act like a destroyer. almost had it..but the rudder stopped working. It was done by placing a Unit_Ship controller besides the Unit_Submarine controller in the sim file.

Anti ship / anti air missiles: I've got a launcher for them, but it's useless, since they don't collide with objects. The magnetic detonator doesn't trigger.

To do: further tuning of sensors and weapons. AI torpedo evasion if possible. Compatibility for 1.5 (using 1.4 now).

I hope this mod will be a step forward in making a cold war campaign for sh4. Check back for updates. Note: this mod will not contain cold-war units, only the sensors and wepons files.

Zel · 03-30-10, 01:19 PM

Here's an update for those interested in the cold war mod!

I've made a sonobuoy, which is pre-placed in the mission editor. It's a static object, which will report the player's position to nearby asw assets (about 30km). Also increases the probability of an airstrike, according to airstrike.cfg. They are radar detectable, couldn't make them work otherwise. It's possible to set up an array, to cover a larger area.

Pre-placed minefields, as well as ai launched mines now have a hydrophone sound. It's a sonar ping, to simulate a mine sensing sonar. The player's autocrew does not detect them as a contact. Will have to adjust the volume to make them audible only at short range.

I've modified the surface radar to detect air units. This eliminates the need for air radar. Plus you can see them on your display.

The mark27 torpedo is modified to act exactly like a decoy. They have a long life, and they can be used as a navigational aid if you're playing without the sub marker. This is because you can hear the bubbles, and they respond to ping.

How to determine a target's depth: Since sh4 does not allow ai subs to change depth, they are cloned so that each clone has a different operating depth. We can give each clone a slightly different _hyd sound, for rough depth estimation. For a more precise depth estimation, this is the process:

The following conditions must be met to get a ping response from an ai submarine:
1. You must pinpoint the exact bearing (more precise than with ships)
2. Your sub must be horizontally levelled.
3. The target must be within +/- 47m depth relative to you.

Determining a target's depth means finding the lower or upper limit of the ping response. When you find it, add or subtract 47, and that's the target's depth. The tricky part is, you can't ping while changing depth, you have to wait until your sub is horizontally levelled. The enemy cannot hear you ping...

Note: because of this bug, playable surface units can only ping submarines which are up to 47m deep. Any deeper, and you won't get a return. That's the main reason why i stopped working with playable dd's. The other reason is, flak guns are the only functional AA weapon.

Going to work now with decoys for the AI.

ElephantMemory · 03-30-10, 04:25 PM

sounds awesome

I am a little late to this tread, and I was wondering if you have a list of the playable submarines that will be in this mod? Im sure you posted this already. I just really did not want to have to search though 40 something pages heh

thanks and good luck!

Zel · 03-30-10, 04:39 PM

Thanks for the feedback! I haven't made any cold war submarines (i'm a newbie at 3d modeling), so the first version of this mod will include only ww2 equipment. Gato/Porpoise for the player and AI Uboats.

I'm doing testing with Fletcher and Mutsuki (both ai), so these will be included too.

Any playable sub will easily be implemented into this mod. It only needs some adjustments for RPM value, TorpMaxLaunchDepth, and torpedo loadout.

AI submarines won't be a problem, either. They just require editing .sns and .eqp files, to implement new sensors and weapon mounts. Then they would have to be cloned, to have them operating at different depths.

I think early cold war equipment would be appropriate.

Right now i'm focusing on functionality, and later, compatibility. I'm using 1.4 now (will upgrade to 1.5 someday)..so i would like to make this compatible for both 1.4 and 1.5.

After the mod is completed, and new subs and ships (and maybe planes) are included, it will be possible to make a campaign.

ERPP8 · 03-30-10, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zel

Thanks for the feedback! I haven't made any cold war submarines (i'm a newbie at 3d modeling), so the first version of this mod will include only ww2 equipment. Gato/Porpoise for the player and AI Uboats.

I'm doing testing with Fletcher and Mutsuki (both ai), so these will be included too.

Any playable sub will easily be implemented into this mod. It only needs some adjustments for RPM value, TorpMaxLaunchDepth, and torpedo loadout.

AI submarines won't be a problem, either. They just require editing .sns and .eqp files, to implement new sensors and weapon mounts. Then they would have to be cloned, to have them operating at different depths.

I think early cold war equipment would be appropriate.

Right now i'm focusing on functionality, and later, compatibility. I'm using 1.4 now (will upgrade to 1.5 someday)..so i would like to make this compatible for both 1.4 and 1.5.

After the mod is completed, and new subs and ships (and maybe planes) are included, it will be possible to make a campaign.

Ask for permission first, but there is a Ohio SSBN and a Los Angeles class sub for download

Zel · 04-02-10, 02:37 PM

During testing, i encountered a strange bug.

I have a scenario with 2 x fletcher VS 2 x mutsuki (all AI, set to elite). The ships are not in formation. Their starting positions and courses resemble an X.

In this scenario, one of the Fletchers does not detect the enemy at all. He doesn't change course or speed, or fire his weapons (even when fired upon). The other Fletcher works fine, he even fires torpedoes in the right direction. Interestingly enough, if i remove the second Fletcher, the first one will work properly!

Anyone have an idea what's going on?

Hotmanandre · 05-28-10, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr Kaleun

Has anybody the download link for this german klasse 206 sub?

In the russian thread is the link down.

This boat is still necessary to you? Russian link Up

Glance on mine: filefront.com

Angeldust · 05-28-10, 06:31 AM

i know i know.

i also never got into problems, until i tried to use all of them in the campaign.

btw. does anybody know if it is possible to mod active homing torpedoes?

Zel · 05-28-10, 06:55 AM

I don't think it's possible to have active torpedoes, because you can't attach a sensor to an object.

At least we have passive torpedoes!

Angeldust · 05-28-10, 07:06 AM

yep, but they aren't very trustworthy i think.....

when i'm underwater and finding my target over sonar i need usually 3-4 tries to hit my target

Werewolf · 06-01-10, 02:54 AM

@Angeldust - and all the others who are still interested in making a cold war mod possible for that matter (thanks for your ongoing interest):

So far it is not possible to change the dates - we are more or less stock with the period from 1939-1945 I´m afraid, I think. However! All of this is not essential, whether the calendar says 01-04-1944 or 10-06-1965 I do not really care about that right now, what matters is the world around you at this time! Your boat, your sensors and weapons, the enemy, his sensors and weapons, if all of this work like beyond WWII, that is modern weapons, modern sensors etc. then you have a cold war mod! And this is what we focus on right now, to make sub vs sub engagements available, to make weapons that are as close to modern ones as possible within the millions of limitations in this game. Zel has made increadible progress I think, due to him an AI submarine now actually fires torpedoes at you and detects you submerged. I´ve tested his stuff and it actually works, the only thing that slows down all of this is the limitations of the weapons, the acoustic torpedoes of SHIV will not go deep, that means that they hover around above you, they can track you, but cannot get to you, due to the focus on surface warfare only they are not able to go deeper than their launched depth. Work is being done to try to figure out this problem though. No, maybe active homing torpedoes will not be possible, but at least it might be possible to make a sim where you are finally in a 3D environment and never safe not even under the surface like in more modern submarine warfare.

Regarding implementing cold war subs in campaigns - this is the easy part, simply substitute a type IXD2 for example with your cold war sub in the careerstart and flotilla upc. The campaign setup is almost there, if the cold war had gone hot the Russians would have been fighting much the same fight as the Germans trying to choke Nato´s supply lines, they would have followed much the same assymetric warfare strategy at sea so the bases only need to be moved around, the ships have to be modernized, the convoying and setup in itself is almost there already, and this most of you can do already with the mission editor and notepad. And one good thing about this game is the possibility of combined forces with the ability to control air units and other naval units.

I think a lot of things are still possible to do, only we need more interest in this and more people involved. I for my part haven´t even played a WWII campaign ever since I got the game, I´ve been determined at making it a cold war sim from the beginning and the gaming that I have done has been with cold war subs. I for my part am sick and tired of being stock in WWII or left with the alternative of the other, what I would call, Tom Clancy simulators out there like DW. Silent Hunter has so much potential and it would be perfect if only some very annoying obstacles were removed.

nubbie44 · 08-08-10, 06:25 AM

I think this is an excellent idea. The time period of the late 50s to early 60s is perfect for this given the limits of the game engine. I think if more people were on board to just simulating this time period and modeling everything we need for it, we could get this done! It would be very awesome!

View Poll Results: What time period would you like the Cold War Mod to encompass?
Early Cold War: 1947 to the early 1960s	148	14.18%
Mid Cold War: 1960s to 1980s	195	18.68%
Late Cold War: 1980's to 1991	147	14.08%
I want the whole thing! 1947 to 1991	554	53.07%
Voters: 1044. You may not vote on this poll

03-24-10, 01:01 PM	#1
Herr Kaleun Watch Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 24 Downloads: 400 Uploads: 0	Has anybody the download link for this german klasse 206 sub? In the russian thread is the link down. __________________

03-25-10, 03:46 PM	#2
Zel Sailor man Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 45 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Cold War workshop I'm working on a mod to implement basic cold war functionality to sh4. The game has many limitations, and realism is not possible, but I believe that challenging gameplay is possible. First, a big thank-you to DarkFish for the AI Launched Torpedoes mod. This was the starting point. Completed features: AI submarines and surface ships are able to launch torpedoes at the player while he is submerged. For a torpedo launch, a visual detection is necessary. The AI unit needs to be able to "see" underwater. The trick is, to get the visual sensor to behave like a hydrophone would. The influence of day/night and fog needs to be minimized. I got surprisingly good results! This modification affects surface warfare, but there are workarounds. One side effect is night vision for surface ships. AI Launched mines: A torpedo is used to simulate a mine. A shallow mine is easy, but a deep mine is a problem - any time compression will mess it up. Because of this, a large proximity radius could be used. The mines have their own hyd_sound. A type of ping can be used, to simulate mine detecting sonar (heard at short range). AI torpedo attack: The ai cannot determine player's depth, and each torpedo has it's own fixed depth. Again, a large proximity radius can be used to cover a lot of ground. Also, it's possible to have a deep, shallow and "middle" torpedo launcher. The modder can decide which one to mount (or all three, if desired). There was a lot of tuning done to the torpedo launchers to increase their accuracy. A salvo option is available, since the player can easily evade one torpedo. Player submerged attack: The player can use his sonar ping freely, because the AI doesn't hear it (try it). There is a method to determine the exact depth of a target, using sonar. Thanks to homing torpedoes, a precise solution isn't necessary. The player will match his depth to the target's depth, and launch a fixed-depth torpedo. It stays at launch depth. There are also regular torpedoes, which go to their pre-set depth (in the sim file). Air launched torpedoes/mines: this one is still somewhat buggy, but it's fun to watch planes decimate a convoy with torpedoes. Extensible surface radar: replaces one of the periscopes. Failed to complete: Agressive behaviour of AI subs: the subs are pretty dumb. They have "merchant" behaviour: follow waypoints,zigzag and shoot. I've tried to make them act like a destroyer. almost had it..but the rudder stopped working. It was done by placing a Unit_Ship controller besides the Unit_Submarine controller in the sim file. Anti ship / anti air missiles: I've got a launcher for them, but it's useless, since they don't collide with objects. The magnetic detonator doesn't trigger. To do: further tuning of sensors and weapons. AI torpedo evasion if possible. Compatibility for 1.5 (using 1.4 now). I hope this mod will be a step forward in making a cold war campaign for sh4. Check back for updates. Note: this mod will not contain cold-war units, only the sensors and wepons files.

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03-30-10, 01:19 PM	#3
Zel Sailor man Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 45 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Here's an update for those interested in the cold war mod! I've made a sonobuoy, which is pre-placed in the mission editor. It's a static object, which will report the player's position to nearby asw assets (about 30km). Also increases the probability of an airstrike, according to airstrike.cfg. They are radar detectable, couldn't make them work otherwise. It's possible to set up an array, to cover a larger area. Pre-placed minefields, as well as ai launched mines now have a hydrophone sound. It's a sonar ping, to simulate a mine sensing sonar. The player's autocrew does not detect them as a contact. Will have to adjust the volume to make them audible only at short range. I've modified the surface radar to detect air units. This eliminates the need for air radar. Plus you can see them on your display. The mark27 torpedo is modified to act exactly like a decoy. They have a long life, and they can be used as a navigational aid if you're playing without the sub marker. This is because you can hear the bubbles, and they respond to ping. How to determine a target's depth: Since sh4 does not allow ai subs to change depth, they are cloned so that each clone has a different operating depth. We can give each clone a slightly different _hyd sound, for rough depth estimation. For a more precise depth estimation, this is the process: The following conditions must be met to get a ping response from an ai submarine: 1. You must pinpoint the exact bearing (more precise than with ships) 2. Your sub must be horizontally levelled. 3. The target must be within +/- 47m depth relative to you. Determining a target's depth means finding the lower or upper limit of the ping response. When you find it, add or subtract 47, and that's the target's depth. The tricky part is, you can't ping while changing depth, you have to wait until your sub is horizontally levelled. The enemy cannot hear you ping... Note: because of this bug, playable surface units can only ping submarines which are up to 47m deep. Any deeper, and you won't get a return. That's the main reason why i stopped working with playable dd's. The other reason is, flak guns are the only functional AA weapon. Going to work now with decoys for the AI.

03-30-10, 04:25 PM	#4
ElephantMemory Seaman Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 35 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	sounds awesome I am a little late to this tread, and I was wondering if you have a list of the playable submarines that will be in this mod? Im sure you posted this already. I just really did not want to have to search though 40 something pages heh thanks and good luck!

03-30-10, 04:39 PM	#5
Zel Sailor man Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 45 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the feedback! I haven't made any cold war submarines (i'm a newbie at 3d modeling), so the first version of this mod will include only ww2 equipment. Gato/Porpoise for the player and AI Uboats. I'm doing testing with Fletcher and Mutsuki (both ai), so these will be included too. Any playable sub will easily be implemented into this mod. It only needs some adjustments for RPM value, TorpMaxLaunchDepth, and torpedo loadout. AI submarines won't be a problem, either. They just require editing .sns and .eqp files, to implement new sensors and weapon mounts. Then they would have to be cloned, to have them operating at different depths. I think early cold war equipment would be appropriate. Right now i'm focusing on functionality, and later, compatibility. I'm using 1.4 now (will upgrade to 1.5 someday)..so i would like to make this compatible for both 1.4 and 1.5. After the mod is completed, and new subs and ships (and maybe planes) are included, it will be possible to make a campaign.

04-02-10, 02:37 PM	#7
Zel Sailor man Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 45 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	During testing, i encountered a strange bug. I have a scenario with 2 x fletcher VS 2 x mutsuki (all AI, set to elite). The ships are not in formation. Their starting positions and courses resemble an X. In this scenario, one of the Fletchers does not detect the enemy at all. He doesn't change course or speed, or fire his weapons (even when fired upon). The other Fletcher works fine, he even fires torpedoes in the right direction. Interestingly enough, if i remove the second Fletcher, the first one will work properly! Anyone have an idea what's going on?

05-28-10, 06:31 AM	#9
Angeldust Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Koblenz, RLP. Germany Posts: 14 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	i know i know. i also never got into problems, until i tried to use all of them in the campaign. btw. does anybody know if it is possible to mod active homing torpedoes?

05-28-10, 06:55 AM	#10
Zel Sailor man Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 45 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I don't think it's possible to have active torpedoes, because you can't attach a sensor to an object. At least we have passive torpedoes!

05-28-10, 07:06 AM	#11
Angeldust Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Koblenz, RLP. Germany Posts: 14 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	yep, but they aren't very trustworthy i think..... when i'm underwater and finding my target over sonar i need usually 3-4 tries to hit my target

06-01-10, 02:54 AM	#12
Werewolf Sonar Guy Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Europe Posts: 394 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	@Angeldust - and all the others who are still interested in making a cold war mod possible for that matter (thanks for your ongoing interest): So far it is not possible to change the dates - we are more or less stock with the period from 1939-1945 I´m afraid, I think. However! All of this is not essential, whether the calendar says 01-04-1944 or 10-06-1965 I do not really care about that right now, what matters is the world around you at this time! Your boat, your sensors and weapons, the enemy, his sensors and weapons, if all of this work like beyond WWII, that is modern weapons, modern sensors etc. then you have a cold war mod! And this is what we focus on right now, to make sub vs sub engagements available, to make weapons that are as close to modern ones as possible within the millions of limitations in this game. Zel has made increadible progress I think, due to him an AI submarine now actually fires torpedoes at you and detects you submerged. I´ve tested his stuff and it actually works, the only thing that slows down all of this is the limitations of the weapons, the acoustic torpedoes of SHIV will not go deep, that means that they hover around above you, they can track you, but cannot get to you, due to the focus on surface warfare only they are not able to go deeper than their launched depth. Work is being done to try to figure out this problem though. No, maybe active homing torpedoes will not be possible, but at least it might be possible to make a sim where you are finally in a 3D environment and never safe not even under the surface like in more modern submarine warfare. Regarding implementing cold war subs in campaigns - this is the easy part, simply substitute a type IXD2 for example with your cold war sub in the careerstart and flotilla upc. The campaign setup is almost there, if the cold war had gone hot the Russians would have been fighting much the same fight as the Germans trying to choke Nato´s supply lines, they would have followed much the same assymetric warfare strategy at sea so the bases only need to be moved around, the ships have to be modernized, the convoying and setup in itself is almost there already, and this most of you can do already with the mission editor and notepad. And one good thing about this game is the possibility of combined forces with the ability to control air units and other naval units. I think a lot of things are still possible to do, only we need more interest in this and more people involved. I for my part haven´t even played a WWII campaign ever since I got the game, I´ve been determined at making it a cold war sim from the beginning and the gaming that I have done has been with cold war subs. I for my part am sick and tired of being stock in WWII or left with the alternative of the other, what I would call, Tom Clancy simulators out there like DW. Silent Hunter has so much potential and it would be perfect if only some very annoying obstacles were removed.

08-08-10, 06:25 AM	#13
nubbie44 Bilge Rat Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	I think this is an excellent idea. The time period of the late 50s to early 60s is perfect for this given the limits of the game engine. I think if more people were on board to just simulating this time period and modeling everything we need for it, we could get this done! It would be very awesome!