Real german subs and diesel engine damaged?

Nisgeis · 02-17-10, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

You are correct Nisgeis. The lathe is located in maneuvering against the bulkhead between maneuvering and the aft torpedo room. all tools to make parts at sea!

In a German sub? They don't look big enough. Got any pics?

PhantomLord · 02-17-10, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

In a German sub? They don't look big enough. Got any pics?

Definitely no lathe in german boats. Space was limited and filled with food, spare parts, ammo, crew and their bunks. I often wonder where they stored the timber (to reinforce the bulkhead in case of heavy damage).
Fighting strenght was the first and only priority. No "comfort" like in the US-subs.

Agree with Gandalf71 and urfisch about the diesel reliability. 30 out of 700 under sometimes extreme stress for the engines is good rate.
Not comparable with modern truck diesels. They have regular routine maintenance (oil change, filter service etc. etc.) and no DC'ing all the time

Schunken · 02-18-10, 02:05 AM

ahm...wait a minute.... I count 30 times a diesel failed and just read the book to early 1940. And at this time there maybe only 50-80 Subs was on regular patrols....

Anyway surely all combustion engines improoves alot until today and a compare with a modern truck engine is unfair...

I only think a diesel with low rpm and a good hp/volume ratio normaly should last longer...

Some of you remember the (europe) Ford RS turbo? 1.6 litres engine and sqeeze out over 170hp....This baby blows up all the time... I got 2 new engines in first year and after warranty I quick sell it...

Andreas

PhantomLord · 02-18-10, 07:05 AM

But remember.. the invention of the diesel engine was 1892...
- First installment on a ship (river boat) was 1903
- 1910 - first ocean going ships with diesel - expedition ship "Fram" and freighter "Selandia"

Research and developement was interrupted by WW I, the Weimar Republic (which was turbulent time with political downtim and almost no economical and scientifical advance), and last but not least the versaille treaty which was a big brake shoe for nearly every military R&D in germany.

Frederf · 02-18-10, 06:14 PM

You know, until now I never figured out why "sabotage" was a problem on submarines. I mean it's just the hand-picked crew who should be loyal! Are French resistance swimming up and sneaking in at night? Then it occurred to me, the sabotage happens when the parts are manufactured... I'm such a dummy!

Bilge_Rat · 02-18-10, 06:29 PM

Or when repairs or overhaul were carried out in french shipyards by french workers. Substandard pipes, joints or welds may not be apparent to the naked eye, but can be deadly 150 meters below the surface. No one knows how many of the U-Boats which disappeared without a trace were lost for that reason.

Jimbuna · 02-19-10, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frederf

You know, until now I never figured out why "sabotage" was a problem on submarines. I mean it's just the hand-picked crew who should be loyal! Are French resistance swimming up and sneaking in at night? Then it occurred to me, the sabotage happens when the parts are manufactured... I'm such a dummy!

I once read an article where a 2 foot welded seam on the pressure hull was little more than a piece of rope dipped in oil to resemble the weld to the casual glance.

Another article told of dead rats being found in the bottom of fresh water drinking containers.

JScones · 02-19-10, 05:59 AM

Re sabotage, read Steel Boat, Iron Hearts by Hans Goebeler (with a grain of salt though). The author devoted a whole chapter to sabotage.

Here's what sabotage allegedly occurred on U-505 during just ONE patrol:
-leaky starboard propeller shaft caused by faulty shaft seal (reduced max depth to 40m)
-FuMB Metox electrical short circuit
-GHG underwater listening device out of action
-radio direction finder antenna could not be deployed
-relief valve seals faulty
-emergency valve seals faulty
-diving tank seals faulty
-battery cell seals faulty
-fuel bunker seals faulty causing oil slick which had pinpointed their position from when they left port to when they returned.

The faulty seals were caused by someone pouring battery acid on them.

This patrol was by no means an exceptional example either, I might add.

Other examples of sabotage (some effected on U-505 over the next three patrols and others experienced by other boats):
-sugar in the lube oils
-dead dog in the water tank
-botulism
-drilled pencil hole in fuel bunkers (this little hole plus some other sabotage caused U-505 to return to port at least 4 patrols in a row as it wasn't picked up by the workers)
-poor welding causing stress cracks
etc etc

02-18-10, 07:05 AM	#4
PhantomLord XO Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 408 Downloads: 124 Uploads: 0	But remember.. the invention of the diesel engine was 1892... - First installment on a ship (river boat) was 1903 - 1910 - first ocean going ships with diesel - expedition ship "Fram" and freighter "Selandia" Research and developement was interrupted by WW I, the Weimar Republic (which was turbulent time with political downtim and almost no economical and scientifical advance), and last but not least the versaille treaty which was a big brake shoe for nearly every military R&D in germany. __________________ ~^~ War does not determine who is right - only who is left. ~^~

02-18-10, 06:29 PM	#6
Bilge_Rat Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: standing watch... Posts: 3,856 Downloads: 344 Uploads: 0	Or when repairs or overhaul were carried out in french shipyards by french workers. Substandard pipes, joints or welds may not be apparent to the naked eye, but can be deadly 150 meters below the surface. No one knows how many of the U-Boats which disappeared without a trace were lost for that reason. __________________

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02-18-10, 02:05 AM	#3
Schunken Medic Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 168 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	ahm...wait a minute.... I count 30 times a diesel failed and just read the book to early 1940. And at this time there maybe only 50-80 Subs was on regular patrols.... Anyway surely all combustion engines improoves alot until today and a compare with a modern truck engine is unfair... I only think a diesel with low rpm and a good hp/volume ratio normaly should last longer... Some of you remember the (europe) Ford RS turbo? 1.6 litres engine and sqeeze out over 170hp....This baby blows up all the time... I got 2 new engines in first year and after warranty I quick sell it... Andreas

02-18-10, 06:14 PM	#5
Frederf Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 665 Downloads: 79 Uploads: 1	You know, until now I never figured out why "sabotage" was a problem on submarines. I mean it's just the hand-picked crew who should be loyal! Are French resistance swimming up and sneaking in at night? Then it occurred to me, the sabotage happens when the parts are manufactured... I'm such a dummy!

02-19-10, 05:59 AM	#8
JScones Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 5,501 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Re sabotage, read Steel Boat, Iron Hearts by Hans Goebeler (with a grain of salt though). The author devoted a whole chapter to sabotage. Here's what sabotage allegedly occurred on U-505 during just ONE patrol: -leaky starboard propeller shaft caused by faulty shaft seal (reduced max depth to 40m) -FuMB Metox electrical short circuit -GHG underwater listening device out of action -radio direction finder antenna could not be deployed -relief valve seals faulty -emergency valve seals faulty -diving tank seals faulty -battery cell seals faulty -fuel bunker seals faulty causing oil slick which had pinpointed their position from when they left port to when they returned. The faulty seals were caused by someone pouring battery acid on them. This patrol was by no means an exceptional example either, I might add. Other examples of sabotage (some effected on U-505 over the next three patrols and others experienced by other boats): -sugar in the lube oils -dead dog in the water tank -botulism -drilled pencil hole in fuel bunkers (this little hole plus some other sabotage caused U-505 to return to port at least 4 patrols in a row as it wasn't picked up by the workers) -poor welding causing stress cracks etc etc