SHV may be a flop because no one cares anymore

[martes86]

Originally Posted by Gunnodayak

It's obvious that developers don't give a ... something about all these posts in subsim forums [...]

Totally wrong. What's obvious to me is that a lot of you newbies to Subsim love to criticise the devs, and say they don't care, and insult their hard work, without even knowing squat about them. I direcly blame Ubi for the big stuff and its consequences. I'm sure that, if all the current SH5 team was an indie team, we wouldn't be having lots of these discussions.

Cheers

Originally Posted by martes86

Totally wrong. What's obvious to me is that a lot of you newbies to Subsim love to criticise the devs, and say they don't care, and insult their hard work, without even knowing squat about them.

With no intention to offend, I wonder if you are playing SH3 on "easy" or on "moderate" level ... Because you can fully understand all these frustrations that are emerging from the way SH5 will look and will feel only if you are playing on "realistic" level and beyond (with no map contacts update) ... Isn't that obvious that the game will be less sim and more arcade than SH3?

[tonschk]

Without a doubt , I am waiting the 04/03/2010 to buy my Brand New SILENT HUNTER 5 Game

[Greentimbers]

Originally Posted by tonschk

Without a doubt , I am waiting the 04/03/2010 to buy my Brand New SILENT HUNTER 5 Game

Same here

[Thomen]

As it was mentioned before, Ubi is not doing it itself any favors with its PR campaign.
I was strolling the Ubi forums and found some mentioning this:

PLATFORM: PC
RELEASE DATE: 3/2/10
RATINGS: Rating Pending
GENRE: Action, Adventure

(Emphasis mine)

However, we can look forward to the new simulation: Imagine: Sweet 16 for the DS

http://www.ubi.com/US/Games/Search.aspx?cal=cs

I just hope its another screwed up text/description.

Originally Posted by martes86

Totally wrong. What's obvious to me is that a lot of you newbies to Subsim love to criticise the devs, and say they don't care, and insult their hard work, without even knowing squat about them.

With no intention to offend, I wonder if you are playing SH3 on "easy" or on "moderate" level ... Because you can fully understand all these frustrations that are emerging from the way SH5 will look and will feel only if you are playing on "realistic" level and beyond (with no map contacts update) ... Isn't that obvious that the game will be less sim and more arcade than SH3?

[Egan]

Originally Posted by martes86

Totally wrong. What's obvious to me is that a lot of you newbies to Subsim love to criticise the devs, and say they don't care, and insult their hard work, without even knowing squat about them. I direcly blame Ubi for the big stuff and its consequences. I'm sure that, if all the current SH5 team was an indie team, we wouldn't be having lots of these discussions.

Cheers

Two points I like to make. Firstly, I think that attacking the developers because they happen to work for Ubisoft is out of order, rude and unfair. However, It is also inaccurate to lay the blame for design decisions soley at the door of the Ubisoft executives. There is a growing air of - I dont even know what you call it, protectionism? - towards the devs. Basically I dont believe they are untouchable, as seems to be suggested by various threads and posts I've seen. They are big boys and girls and I for one would like to see detailed and reasonable answers to why certain decisions were made in the development of the game. Constructive critisism can only help to make this game better. Now, As I said, lets not attack them just because they are the more presentable face of a vast and godless corporation but lets also not pretend they were making the worlds greatest and most hardcore world war two simulator before the evil suits dropped in to say 'Hey, this isnt what the kids want! where's the phat lewt at?'

My second point is this: Regardless of what I feel about certain design choices in the game, or the type of anti-piracy measures taken, I think this will be not only the biggest selling edition of the franchise but quite possibly one of the biggest selling sim titles in many, many years. It is far too easy to come to a site like this and belive that it is the whole world. We represent a tiny slice of the market for this game. Good for the devs and good for ubi. Maybe not so good for me but I'm a grown up sometimes and Im sure I'll cope,

[karamazovnew]

I still care about the game. Sure:
- OSP will be crap at first...
- bugs are part of marketing lately (games like Fallout 3 and Mass Effect 2 are raaaare these days)
- probably silly documentation (but I hope to be wrong)
- lots of modding to do...

But I won't resist buying it... no way....I've been waiting for it for tooo long . Plus, I hope to be the first to review it

[IanC]

Originally Posted by Egan

<snip> I think this will be not only the biggest selling edition of the franchise but quite possibly one of the biggest selling sim titles in many, many years. <snip>

Biggest selling sim title in many years... That doesn't mean much really. It just means that they managed to appeal to a wider crowd, ie the casual gamer, and for a sim, that's not really good news.

[Egan]

Originally Posted by IanC

Biggest selling sim title in many years... That doesn't mean much really. It just means that they managed to appeal to a wider crowd, ie the casual gamer, and for a sim, that's not really good news.

I absolutely agree, but the series has been attempting to do that since SH3 came out.

Actually, what gets me the most is that there is no competition to the Silent Hunter Series. MY biggest wish is that we DO get a professional indy outfit dedicated to making a top class title. Lower sales could be offest by higher prices but I don't think that is really any problem. Simmers tend to be an extraordinarily supportive bunch when they feel there is something there to be supportive of. At the very least it would force everyone to up their game.

Originally Posted by Egan

I absolutely agree, but the series has been attempting to do that since SH3 came out.

Actually, what gets me the most is that there is no competition to the Silent Hunter Series. MY biggest wish is that we DO get a professional indy outfit dedicated to making a top class title. Lower sales could be offest by higher prices but I don't think that is really any problem. Simmers tend to be an extraordinarily supportive bunch when they feel there is something there to be supportive of. At the very least it would force everyone to up their game.

Agreed! We need indie, not corporate.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Egan

lets also not pretend they were making the worlds greatest and most hardcore world war two simulator before the evil suits dropped in to say 'Hey, this isnt what the kids want! where's the phat lewt at?'

I think you would be surprised.

[Egan]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

I think you would be surprised.

Perhaps I would. Perhaps I wouldn't. They still developed the game, though, and it's unfair to suggest that they shouldn't have to shoulder at least some critisism for the game they delevoped as long as that critisism is fair and balanced.

Of course, it would help if we all actually saw the game first, of course. And I'm as guilty of jumping the gun as everyone else.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Egan

Two points I like to make. Firstly, I think that attacking the developers because they happen to work for Ubisoft is out of order, rude and unfair. However, It is also inaccurate to lay the blame for design decisions soley at the door of the Ubisoft executives. There is a growing air of - I dont even know what you call it, protectionism? - towards the devs. Basically I dont believe they are untouchable, as seems to be suggested by various threads and posts I've seen. They are big boys and girls and I for one would like to see detailed and reasonable answers to why certain decisions were made in the development of the game. Constructive critisism can only help to make this game better. Now, As I said, lets not attack them just because they are the more presentable face of a vast and godless corporation but lets also not pretend they were making the worlds greatest and most hardcore world war two simulator before the evil suits dropped in to say 'Hey, this isnt what the kids want! where's the phat lewt at?'

My second point is this: Regardless of what I feel about certain design choices in the game, or the type of anti-piracy measures taken, I think this will be not only the biggest selling edition of the franchise but quite possibly one of the biggest selling sim titles in many, many years. It is far too easy to come to a site like this and belive that it is the whole world. We represent a tiny slice of the market for this game. Good for the devs and good for ubi. Maybe not so good for me but I'm a grown up sometimes and Im sure I'll cope,

Good points, all of them. Yes, the devs are a big part of the design strategy and the individual subsim customers are entitled to decide if they like the direction the game is going or not. Hopefully, they will express their opinions as intelligently as you have done.

One of the problems I see with this round of SH development; in the past the game company was very good about providing us updates and info on the progress of the game. And why not? Subsim has championed these games since SH2 in 1999. But with SH5, there has been very little interaction or access to the game. When I ask my kid to show me their homework so I can see how much they've done, and the kid keeps stalling and stalling...I get the impression the homework is not going as well as I hoped.

At this point, 4 weeks before the game is due to be released; I have not seen anything since Sept, and I expect Ubisoft to delay sending the gold review copy, which other game publishers send 2 weeks before release, until after the game is actually out.

I've got a bad feeling about this, to quote Harrison Ford

[Mikhayl]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I've got a bad feeling about this, to quote Harrison Ford

I still have a positive feeling towards the game (if looking past the "thing"), but yeah some things are worrysome.

The most used view/station in all SH games is the map, and we haven't seen anything meaningful about it except that at 0% realism the enemy ships will have colored vision cones, and we can steer the sub with an arrow on the map. How do we navigate? Still GPS? something else? Plotting? Map notes?

Then obviously targetting, nothing shown about it.

Then the targets, on the website we have cool renders of ships that you would seldom encounter in a "realistic" career, safe for the 2 destroyers. Where are the merchant ships? How many of them?

I understand that there's no point doing a full review before the game is actually out, but usually new games advertise their "features". So far the features advertised are nice but hardly the most relevant to a sub sim.