Das Boot (the original uncut version DVD)

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Panser

As an aside, my copy of the DC has an amusing error in it:
In the scene where Thomsen has collapsed on the toilet floor in the brothel, even with German audio on he gets up and declares (in English) "I AM NOT IN THE CONDITION TO ****!" before continuing in German

Don't know if I'm misunderstanding you, but I'm not sure the English dialogue is an error - I think it was either written in the script for him to say it in English, or else the actor just decided to do it that way and they left it as is because Petersen liked it. (On the DC commentary they do allude to the fact that the actor's drunkenness in the scene was not all acting, lol, so who knows?) Either way there are other instances in "Das Boot" where Der Alte also speaks English, especially (it seems to me) to emphasize a point to someone.

I could be wrong but I think English language was an educational requirement for Kriegsmarine officers at the time? So I don't find it particularly unusual that Thomsen uses English in that scene.

I do find it funny that I get English subtitles for a line very clearly and effectively spoken in English, lol. Although on one version - can't remember which - they actually don't appear, IIRC, until after he's already completed the line and is tossing off the sarcastic "Sieg Heil" to end the scene.

There are things I like about each version over the other - the DC certainly is handy when I want to sit down and watch the storyline to completion in one go but don't have enough time for the uncut version. Also there are some scenes in the uncut version I could do just as well without - my biggest dislike (and it's still a small one) is the introduction of Ullman's French girlfriend as a flesh-and-blood person instead of just another far-off loved one to be worried about and longed for. She's the only one "left behind" at home or back in port by any of the men that we actually see and hear in person - everyone else is just a face in a picture or the subject of a conversation among the officers and men of the Kriegsmarine, and to me the absence of "face time" for the viewer with those faraway loved ones does something to increase the poignancy of the situation. It seems to emphasize even more the isolation of the officers and crew from things most of us take for granted and their distance from the comforts of home and life on land.

Also I'd really prefer the nightclub scene to play out without being interrupted by scenes of Ullman and Francoise, even if they have to be in there somewhere. I find it really jarring to be yanked from one to the other and back again - maybe it was done for some kind of effect but it just doesn't work for me.

On the other hand, there are SO MANY great extra scenes in the extended version that to complain about a few at the very beginning seems like the worst kind of nitpicking, even from a certified veteran nitpicker like myself.

I especially love all the extra interaction we see between Der Alte and different members of the crew, especially when he's shown in more parts of the boat than just the control room, o-messe, and his own quarters. Makes him seem much more involved than might be obvious from what gets shown in just the DC. Of course in a boat that small it would be hard NOT be involved in darn near everything that goes on, lol, but it's nice to see it. The little conversation with Johann back in the engine room about good seamen and careful seamen and how "they" want heroes no matter what the cost is, to me, priceless.

But oh how I wish they'd been able to work in the scene from the book that Petersen said he wanted to include but didn't or couldn't - Der Alte in the galley cooking up potato pancakes for the entire crew. Now that would have been awesome.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Also I'd really prefer the nightclub scene to play out without being interrupted by scenes of Ullman and Francoise, even if they have to be in there somewhere. I find it really jarring to be yanked from one to the other and back again - maybe it was done for some kind of effect but it just doesn't work for me.

I kind of agree, but in my case it's mostly that she wasn't a 'real' character in the book. I did like the scene - also not in the book - with Der Alte and 'Werner' discussing the girl in the window as they leave the docks.

But oh how I wish they'd been able to work in the scene from the book that Petersen said he wanted to include but didn't or couldn't - Der Alte in the galley cooking up potato pancakes for the entire crew. Now that would have been awesome.

Another scene from the book that wasn't in the movie was the Spanish freighter at the end. I can see why they left that one out, and replaced it with the sinking British tanker, but it still might have been interesting.

[frau kaleun]

In the interest of correctness I should've said that it was Prochnow, not Peterson, who mentioned in the commentary that he wished they had included the potato pancake scene in the movie.

It's probably my favorite thing from the book that didn't make the movie. IIRC in the book the men all line up to pass through the galley and der Alte stuffs a rolled up pancake in each guy's mouth as he goes by. Hilarious.

I don't mind the scene of the girl waving from the window as the boat puts out to sea, really, because it doesn't interrupt the flow of the action. The cuts to her and Ullman the night before really take something away from the Bar Royale scene IMO and, even if you left in the waving from the window, they could easily be left out.

Don't really need to see anything of her from the night before to clarify who she is because everything about that and her situation is taken care of when Ullman talks about her to Werner later on. Now that I think about it, it might have been more interesting just to see her waving from the window and then not know anything more until Ullman tells Werner about her.

The Spanish boat was the one the 1WO screwed up the ID on and they almost attacked, correct? I don't know, maybe they didn't want to add anything else that was too "negative" about his character. He kind of started out as the most unpopular guy on the boat and it's only as the movie progresses that he becomes less unlikeable if only because he's finally starting to understand the difference between his shiny ideology and the grubby reality of their situation. Making him look like a doofus again might've worked against that from the audience's perspective.

Buchhiem's treatment of the fictional 1WO is pretty stereotypical and given that he himself was a paid part of the Party propaganda apperatus (and so by definition considered politically orthodox and acceptable to the regime) one gets the feeling that perhaps "he doth protests too much", to paraphrase Bill the Bard.

The nameless Number 1 always struck me as being an reasonably effective executive officer and any personal quiffs were professionally irrelevant. He managed two hits on three targets during the convoy attack and so it would appear he knew how to use a UZO effectively.

He kind of started out as the most unpopular guy on the boat and it's only as the movie progresses that he becomes less unlikeable if only because he's finally starting to understand the difference between his shiny ideology and the grubby reality of their situation. Making him look like a doofus again might've worked against that from the audience's perspective.

This is less apperant in the book but after all the times reading the novel and watching the movie I had never quite put Number 1 into that context. Nice catch.

[frau kaleun]

Thanks. I think it's one of the more effective things about the movie but I didn't even notice it until I'd watched it a couple of times. Just on the basis of personal hygiene and dress, you can see him slowly "falling apart" as the story goes on, when nearer the beginning he's even reading lectures to Ullman about the importance of an officer's attention to such things. He still tries harder than anybody else on board, but by the time they're on the Weser he looks almost shabby compared to the merchant ship's officers. It's a nice visual metaphor for the loss of his naivete and idealistic notions about what it really means to fight the war that his Nazi idols started. The reality is you can't do the dirty work without ruining your manicure, only the guys giving the orders from behind a desk somewhere far away have that luxury.

One biggie that's not in the book, IIRC, but very effective in the movie is Kriechbaum getting wounded at Gibraltar. If you pay attention with a mind to following it, you realize that his condition mirrors the situation of the boat overall. When things are looking their worst, Hinrich is saying it doesn't look good for Kriechbaum, who is still pretty out of it and muttering "mama mama" as he's attended to. When they think they actually have a shot at getting off the bottom again and are making the necessary repairs, you see him regain consciousness and he appears to be lucid enough to pay attention to what's really going on around him. At least he's not obviously dying at that point. And of course when they're back in port he's awake and doing well enough to thank Hinrich for taking care of him and doesn't appear to be in any immediate danger.

That would be the extended cut, though. In the theatrical releases it's not obvious because some of that's left out. But it's very nicely done in the longer version.

And then the air raid comes but I choose to believe that the ambulance he was put in got away clean. A small consolation, but there it is.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

The Spanish boat was the one the 1WO screwed up the ID on and they almost attacked, correct?

I was thinking more of the Captain's reaction when someone wondered what would have happened if they had torpedoed the neutral ship. The Captain's reply is something along the lines of "Then it would be to our benefit if no one told the tale", leaving then others to wonder if he was joking or actually thinking of killing the survivors. Very deep dilemma to be put on film.

As to the 1WO, the long version of the film gets me to thinking that he's not a party member because he's a hardline Nazi at heart, but rather because he's a confused young man who wants to be liked - to be part of 'the gang'. He's stuffy and a little pompous, sure, but he tries hard to be liked and respected, and fails miserably at both.

I also noted that whatever his failings, when the depth charges are falling all around he's usually seen to be calmly doing his job. He may not be the most likable character, but he's a very capable officer.

That's one of the reasons I like the 'Uncut' version. It does even more than the book to flesh out these characters and make them seem like real people. No one is all good or all bad.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

As to the 1WO, the long version of the film gets me to thinking that he's not a party member because he's a hardline Nazi at heart, but rather because he's a confused young man who wants to be liked - to be part of 'the gang'. He's stuffy and a little pompous, sure, but he tries hard to be liked and respected, and fails miserably at both.

I also noted that whatever his failings, when the depth charges are falling all around he's usually seen to be calmly doing his job. He may not be the most likable character, but he's a very capable officer.

Oh, I agree that that his unpopularity with the crew and other officers, however much there is of it, is personal and not professional, at least in the movie there's no indication that he's not thoroughly competent as an 1WO.

Also there's the fact that (at least in the movie) he's not from Germany, he's from Mexico. It doesn't indicate how long he'd been there, if he was raised there from childhood on or not, but at the very least he was living and working there full-time for a while. Like many people living or born and raised abroad who self-identified as German he came back to serve what was (or what he considered to be) his homeland in time of war. Striving to be as "German" as possible (which he naively equates with strict adherence to Nazi ideology) would certainly be one way to try and compensate for being a returning "outlander" or whatever the appropriate term is.

(Reminds me that Wolfgang Luth was also an ethnic German who was actually born and raised outside of Germany, I believe in one of the Baltic states. And the record does seem to indicate that he also spoke and behaved like a "true believer" in the Nazi regime and its policies, insofar as he understood and was aware of them.)

[Sailor Steve]

Since we're on the subject of navies and Nazis, I will take a diversion to mention The Sea Chase. It's certainly not a great movie, or even a particularly good one, but it is interesting. It's about a German merchant captain in Australia when the war breaks out, and he feels it's his duty to get his crew home to Germany so they can decide for themselves what they want to do. He was originally in the Kriegsmarine commanding a cruiser, but was ousted because of his outspoken opinions against the party. His best friend is a captain in the RAN, but he looks the other way when The Captain sneaks out of the harbor in the dead of night.

The Captain takes the crew of an island radio station hostage so he can "liberate" supplies, but while they are preparing to leave the evil Nazi First Mate sneaks back and murders them all, which makes the Australian best friend set out to bring them all to justice.

As I said, not a great movie, but there is one notable twist: the German captain is played by...John Wayne!

The evil Nazi XO is a recurring theme in Naval theatre, particularly in wartime propaganda films and later during the post-war period when rearming West Germany became important for NATO.

See additional examples from 49th Parallel - Leslie Howard and Raymond Massey and of course the classic submarine movie The Enemy Below with Robert Mitchum and Kurt Jurgans.

Das Boot the movie treats Number 1 with far more depth and sympathy than does The Boat the book and I suspect that was to avoid comparison with the stereotypes found in The Sea Chase and the above flics.

It would be interesting to see if the original German text differs significantly from the English translation in this regard.

Edit
Forgot that Under Ten Flags, the highly fictionalized movie about Raider Atlantis also had an Evil Nazi Officer on board but I cannot recall if he was XO or just a junior officer.