US is the no. 1 polluter in the world

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

You know, I don't see why anyone has to be ashamed to eat a burger or drive an SUV. Maybe that's what they like, and last time I checked, it was still a free country.

Oh, ok. I guess I can light up a joint somewhere outside without fear of arrest, or go to the local red light district and legally bang a prostitute if I so choose.

[August]

You can't claim that we aren't a free country if we prosecute criminals. Last I checked pot and prostitution were illegal.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Originally Posted by August

You can't claim that we aren't a free country if we prosecute criminals. Last I checked pot and prostitution were illegal.

And the circle of logic is complete.

[August]

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

And the circle of logic is complete.

So your logic is we aren't free because we don't allow murder, rape and robbery?

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Why yes Skybird....I think of all of that when I drive my Volkswagen Passat 4 cylinder turbo. Guess what, I traded in a Lincoln V8 for this car. Better gas mileage and less emission. I do not know what TV shows you watch but it is not living high on the hog as you believe it to be. Not everyone has a Hummer Curbside once a week my recycables are in a bin to picked up. So, please with blanket coverage that we all live fat and happy in the US. People are concerned. As far as consumers. Well, if we do not consume it seems the world goes into an economic tailspin. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Going back and forth between DK and USA, the lack of recykeling in USA used to irk me to no end. Some places still do. However, due to the lack of landfill space, and the high costs of hauling trash long distance, much of USA has literaly cleaned up it's act.

Long Island, New York even managed to surpass DK in one respect.
It's the only place I know of that even goes so far as to recykel plastic!
You go, USA!

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

Oh, ok. I guess I can light up a joint somewhere outside without fear of arrest, or go to the local red light district and legally bang a prostitute if I so choose.

C'mon, man! Did I say anything about being arrested? I said "ashamed". You know the difference between being ashamed for something that is completely legal and fearing arrest from illegal activities? Read what I wrote. It wasn't that much.

Originally Posted by August

You can't claim that we aren't a free country if we prosecute criminals. Last I checked pot and prostitution were illegal.

Thank you.

[FIREWALL]

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

I really hate this law, this is the biggest scam in the world. It's just an easy way to collect a fee out of people.
They might as well make a law that says all wheels must be round, then create a gov't agency for inspection and enforcement. For $50 a year, we can certify that your wheels are round.

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Boy - nobody dealt with me facts - I guess I wasted time on it. Oh well.

Niki - man I like ya - but don't go giving the government any ideas!

As for emission testing - we have it here as well. You even get a fancy little pie chart printout showing how much of what types of waste gasses your car is putting out.

Of course - if they ever managed to measure a politician - the would find it would be one uncut pie - 100% hot air.

A tie for two best posts.

I drive a Hummer and it passes emissions tests with flying colors.

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Lets see - the latest DOT info on record I could find after a quick search dated from 2004 - so they are a bit old - but not terribly so. Lets take a look at what it showed us, shall we?

The resident population - 294 Million
The number of licensed drivers - 199 Million
Number of vehicles - 237 Million

So first off - nearly one third of the population is/was either walking - or carpooling in some fashion. That's a pretty good number in any society. Only 1 out of 5 drivers on average had more than one vehicle that they owned - meaning 4 out of 5 people were "evilly consuming" only one vehicle that is a necessity to do things like go to work or get food. Funny, the "consumerism" bias makes it sound like all Americans are and were living "high on the hog" - when the data shows that the vast majority were consuming only what is necessary. One more fact that shows that far away, uninformed picture is untrue - though I doubt it will matter to those who have no place for truth in their world view.

The numbers are actualy much lower than that.
Take a look at the Car vs Truck ratio on USA's roads.
A very substantial part of that "1 out of 5 drivers" drive trucks for a living while also owning a personal car.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by August

So your logic is we aren't free because we don't allow murder, rape and robbery?

Those things all hurt other people, innocent people. Torvald's examples only hurt Torvald.

No, we're also not free as long as state governments pass seatbelt and helmet laws. Meddling just because you're offended by the action is indeed a denial of freedom, liberty, and rights.

[August]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Those things all hurt other people, innocent people. Torvald's examples only hurt Torvald.

No, we're also not free as long as state governments pass seatbelt and helmet laws. Meddling just because you're offended by the action is indeed a denial of freedom, liberty, and rights.

That's not why those things are done and you know it. Take seat belt laws for example. There is a much higher injury and death rate among people who do not use them and this raises the cost of insurance for everyone. Now 'splain to me why should I have to pay for the consequences of your poor judgment.

[NeonSamurai]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Those things all hurt other people, innocent people. Torvald's examples only hurt Torvald.

No, we're also not free as long as state governments pass seatbelt and helmet laws. Meddling just because you're offended by the action is indeed a denial of freedom, liberty, and rights.

I could make an argument about how much prostitution hurts the prostitutes, and all the associated stuff.

[ETR3(SS)]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Those things all hurt other people, innocent people. Torvald's examples only hurt Torvald.

No, we're also not free as long as state governments pass seatbelt and helmet laws. Meddling just because you're offended by the action is indeed a denial of freedom, liberty, and rights.

Originally Posted by August

That's not why those things are done and you know it. Take seat belt laws for example. There is a much higher injury and death rate among people who do not use them and this raises the cost of insurance for everyone. Now 'splain to me why should I have to pay for the consequences of your poor judgment.

Here's my take on this. There should be no law passed with my safety in mind. If I'm too stupid to wear a seat belt or a helmet and I get in an accident and play superman for about 100ft, my fault no one else's. That being said it's up to the insurance companies to put it in their policies to be discretionary when it comes to that sort of thing. Get in an accident and didn't wear your seat belt, coverage denied, plain and simple.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

Here's my take on this. There should be no law passed with my safety in mind. If I'm too stupid to wear a seat belt or a helmet and I get in an accident and play superman for about 100ft, my fault no one else's. That being said it's up to the insurance companies to put it in their policies to be discretionary when it comes to that sort of thing. Get in an accident and didn't wear your seat belt, coverage denied, plain and simple.

Well, that just about sums up what I would have said, and I completely agree about the insurance part.

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

I could make an argument about how much prostitution hurts the prostitutes, and all the associated stuff.

Yes, you could, but you would have to ignore the fact that most of the "associated stuff" goes with the illegality. Legalise prostitutes, register and tax them and they get to keep the money they earn, disease is reduced and only the women who actually want to do it are affected. You could even license them and only allow those who passed certification to ply the trade, thus making the state more money as well. The only reason prostitution is illegal is because it offends some people's morals.

[August]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

Here's my take on this. There should be no law passed with my safety in mind. If I'm too stupid to wear a seat belt or a helmet and I get in an accident and play superman for about 100ft, my fault no one else's. That being said it's up to the insurance companies to put it in their policies to be discretionary when it comes to that sort of thing. Get in an accident and didn't wear your seat belt, coverage denied, plain and simple.

Yet you can still go to any emergency room and get treated, insurance coverage or not, money to pay for it or not, so your fellow citizens are still forced to pick up the tab for your foolishness.

Captain Haplo,

the part about Hummers wasn't from the WHO link although the whole SUV-thing is pretty significant IMO.

So far US has been the no. 1 opponent of all global anti-pollution efforts. And so far Obama hasn't done anything to counter this.

About deaths caused by pollution in the US.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05180/529969.stm

"Sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides help form fine airborne particles and soot, which trigger asthma attacks and cause lung and heart disease linked to more than 20,000 premature deaths a year."