Hacked Emails Show Climate Science Ridden with Rancor

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Of course it does. I mean, China has about 4 + times the population of the US so it's not that big of surprise if they produce more pollution in absolute figures then the US. And a small country like Qatar may produce more in terms of per capita but a lot less in absolute figures.

China does not practice any type of pollution control at all as well as other countries. So, no it does not matter one ioda. You stated the US is number one in pollution. Flat out. Nothing about per capita or absolute figures. So in your mind it does not matter for the US. The US is just the biggest offender.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

China does not practice any type of pollution control at all as well as other countries. So, no it does not matter one ioda. You stated the US is number one in pollution. Flat out. Nothing about per capita or absolute figures. So in mind it does not matter for the US. The US is just the biggest offender.

Biggest offender? How is that different from being the biggest polluter?

Even if China doesn't employ much environmental standards it's pretty telling that they have only recently caught up with the US in terms of absolute figures despite having 4 + times the population.

Plus, it's the US corporations that have moved their factories into places like China where there are lax environmental codes just so they can cut costs and also to ignore worker rights.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Biggest offender? How is that different from being the biggest polluter?

Even if China doesn't employ much environmental standards it's pretty telling that they have only recently caught up with the US in terms of absolute figures despite having 4 + times the population.

Plus, it's the US corporations that have moved their factories into places like China where there are lax environmental codes just so they can cut costs and also to ignore worker rights.

Nice twist with the last sentence. This is not about worker rights. Back to what you stated. US is biggest polluter/offender/a-holes...please do not throw that out there without some supporting documentation or links.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Nice twist with the last sentence. This is not about worker rights.

Oh yea that's right because pollution has no effect on workers. You're absolutely right there.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Oh yea that's right because pollution has no effect on workers. You're absolutely right there.

Changing subjects to a coverall statement Come on OTH, you debate better than that! Workers rights was not in question nor in the conversation. Just a blanket OTH statement concerning pollution and the US as the number one polluter.

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Changing subjects to a coverall statement Come on OTH, you debate better than that! Workers rights was not in question nor in the conversation. Just a blanket OTH statement concerning pollution and the US as the number one polluter.

Pollution has no borders and it doesn't acknowledge class distinctions. However it seems that people lower down the social ladder feel the brunt of the ill effects of pollution.

[Skybird]

I do not really understand why clima sceptics are even discussing here, just because of the Kopenhagen conference is taking place. It is very clear that Kopenhagen is not about trying to do as much as possible, not to mention: to do as much as is needed. Kopenhagen is about how to get away with having done as little as possible. Kopenhagen is an alibi event. If I were a member of the sceptics' band, i already would be happy and celebrate.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Pollution has no borders and it doesn't acknowledge class distinctions. However it seems that people lower down the social ladder feel the brunt of the ill effects of pollution.

What, folks in the US do not get the ill affects of pollution? Physical wellness knows no boundries either. Economic or otherwise.

[Respenus]

It primarily about the method and the attitude that you have. No offence, yet most responses that I see from both side (one has to be truthful), is one of the old division between the free market and the "bloody commies" that we Europeans have come to represent. And this is what is irking us the most, the fact that you put everything down on the level of economics. Or on the other hand, on the level of religion, with "Jesus Christ, our only Lord and Saviour". I'm not claiming that this is how the whole of the USA act, yet you're not giving us a better picture, are you? The more Skybird focuses on the issue of the rationalistic method, the more he is attacked for being bias, even though he always presents both sides of the argument. We are not blameless ourselves, yet we do see things from the alternative, non-economic point of view, between GDP and what can be defined as "right".

The USA/Europe argument is the same as the human right/Islam arguments. Both sides use quasi rational methods to support their views. And while neither is correct in doing so, Europe is ready to accept different views and try to solve the difference without too much violent conflict, while Islam is still deeply entrenched in the Quran and the Shari'ah and reason forbid that it should be any different.

I'm finished with this. Since this moment, I'm happily waiting for the Singularity. Whatever it may bring us. It will at least stop the constant bickering about who's stone is stonier and solve the issue for us. With us or without us.

Oh and this.