drifting

Originally Posted by irish1958

Steve, it might be a bug in the game. But how else could you model the effect of tides, currents, wind, waves, water density, water temperature, etc. on the boat? For example, the Gulf Stream has a velocity of almost 5 knots. If you set a course, say for the Carolina coast near Chareston of, at, say, 270 degrees. You could hold that course, but by crossing the gulf steam at 12 knots and holding your course, you would be 30 miles/12 knots x 5 knots=12.5 miles North of Charleston, and that doesn't consider the effect of wind and waves of the boat. Using way-points solves the problem with periodic (in real life) corrections.
The Arctic Stream is even faster
I think the periodic drifting is a good compromise in the game.
This is no longer a problem with GPS navigation.

Steve is right, and has it right (as usual).

Remember that Course and Heading are not the same thing.

One holds a specific Heading while conducting a torpedo attack.
The only Course of interest, is that of the target(s).

[irish1958]

Originally Posted by Snestorm

Steve is right, and has it right (as usual).

Remember that Course and Heading are not the same thing.

One holds a specific Heading while conducting a torpedo attack.
The only Course of interest, is that of the target(s).

I never said Steve was wrong. I said that if you maintain a particular heading, you won't get to where you want to go. How would you model this in the game? The only (easy) way to do it, in my opinion, is to have the boat wander a bit and require periodic corrections. Otherwise you would need a supercomputer to crunch all the data.

Originally Posted by irish1958

I never said Steve was wrong. I said that if you maintain a particular heading, you won't get to where you want to go. How would you model this in the game? The only (easy) way to do it, in my opinion, is to have the boat wander a bit and require periodic corrections. Otherwise you would need a supercomputer to crunch all the data.

This is also 100% corect.

My reinforcement of Steve's comments was not intended to infer that those of Irish were wrong. They aren't. And accurate information is given in the post.

It is the inability of the Helmsman to hold an ordered Heading that is problematic and incorrect. Keeping a vessel on Course is an entirely different issue.

The OOD is responsible for keeping a vessel on Course.
He may change Heading many times in order to achieve this end.

F.eks., if the Helmsman is ordered to hold Heading 090 for an extended period of time, the vessel should, and will drift off Course. However, this is the OOD's concern, not the Helmsman's.

The constant changing of Heading required to stay on Course is solved by Waypoints.
The automated Heading changes ordered by the OOD, and carried out by the Helmsman works well.

When not using this automated system, the Helmsman had better be holding whatever Heading is ordered. If unable to do so, he must be replaced.

[Draka]

In navigation, Heading is the direction the bow is pointing - the helmsman will attempt to maintain that based on his compass. Be advised that a VERY good helmsman will still stray 3-5 degrees at best from that depending on sea state, etc. The actual course made over the ground will vary from that based on wind, current and sea state.

I agree that the use of waypoints simulates the entire chain of the Helmsman, Officer of the Deck and the Navigator all inputting their functions into the maintaining of a plotted course. However, once you are on manual it SHOULD vary based on all the above - but as also been stated it would take a lot of CPU cycles and code to do anything like a good job at simulating ALL the effects.

Just as a case in point - the helmsman was maintaining his plotted course, but the navigator didn't correctly factor in a current - and the result was seven US destroyers out of action. See http://www.pointhondamemorial.org/.

Originally Posted by Draka

In navigation, Heading is the direction the bow is pointing - the helmsman will attempt to maintain that based on his compass. Be advised that a VERY good helmsman will still stray 3-5 degrees at best from that depending on sea state, etc. The actual course made over the ground will vary from that based on wind, current and sea state.

I agree that the use of waypoints simulates the entire chain of the Helmsman, Officer of the Deck and the Navigator all inputting their functions into the maintaining of a plotted course. However, once you are on manual it SHOULD vary based on all the above - but as also been stated it would take a lot of CPU cycles and code to do anything like a good job at simulating ALL the effects.

Just as a case in point - the helmsman was maintaining his plotted course, but the navigator didn't correctly factor in a current - and the result was seven US destroyers out of action. See http://www.pointhondamemorial.org/.

Excellent post.
The event in your link has been referred to as Whiskey On The Rocks.
From that moment on all USN ships in in any and all formations were responsible for maintaining their own plot.
An interesting side note is that in situations such as this, the QM stands before a Court Martial, right beside the CO.

Straying 3 - 5 degrees during an UNREP could have very seriouse and possibly fatal consequenses. That's UNSAT. There are certain situations when very good isn't good enough and only the best will do.