food and supplies while on patrol in sh5?

Originally Posted by jimbuna

How about something visual akin to what DivingDuck has created for his open hatch mod.......the food could be closely aligned to fuel consumption and disappear bit by bit, therefore giving the impression it has been eaten.

no way, i dont want to read a year long thread on how the bananas are curved the wrong way or the grapefruit shouldnt be that color.

realism is nice but i dont want to see the toilet paper in the head either even if it should be seen in real life

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by WEBSTER

no way, i dont want to read a year long thread on how the bananas are curved the wrong way or the grapefruit shouldnt be that color.

realism is nice but i dont want to see the toilet paper in the head either even if it should be seen in real life

Exactly. Getting bogged down in these nitpicky little details doesn't do anything to make a better game. Like Mihai said in another thread - it sounds like people don't want a U-boat sim, they want a WORLD sim. People need to realize that developer time is a limited resource. Programming an intricate and detailed food consumption model is just insignificant and a total waste - it does absolutely nothing for the focus of the game. We're seeing comments come from the dev team that they may not even have time to implement big picture strategy aspects like wolfpacks that directly impact the game play experience, and people are whining about wanting food supplies modelled?!

I'm sorry if this is coming off like a rant, but I guess it is. The game is about U-boat combat. Not food supply management. If you want a babysitting or cooking sim, go pick up Cooking Mama or The Sims. I want a WW2 U-boat combat sim. The bananas and hams hanging in the control room in SH3 were as much of a food simulator as I care to see.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Exactly. Getting bogged down in these nitpicky little details doesn't do anything to make a better game. Like Mihai said in another thread - it sounds like people don't want a U-boat sim, they want a WORLD sim. People need to realize that developer time is a limited resource. Programming an intricate and detailed food consumption model is just insignificant and a total waste - it does absolutely nothing for the focus of the game. We're seeing comments come from the dev team that they may not even have time to implement big picture strategy aspects like wolfpacks that directly impact the game play experience, and people are whining about wanting food supplies modelled?!

I'm sorry if this is coming off like a rant, but I guess it is. The game is about U-boat combat. Not food supply management. If you want a babysitting or cooking sim, go pick up Cooking Mama or The Sims. I want a WW2 U-boat combat sim. The bananas and hams hanging in the control room in SH3 were as much of a food simulator as I care to see.

A more polite version of what I'm thinking.

[THE_MASK]

Fuel does the same thing .

[Ducimus]

Personally, i think there should be something along the lines of
"Provisions".

No micromanagement requried at all. Would work just like fuel. Fact is a WW2 submarine left port with XX amount of days worth of provisions. In game terms this could be implemented like a H.I read out or fuel gauge..

"Provisions left: 45 days"

Now thinking back to my SH3 days, most people doing AN grids in a type 7 could care less, but the instant you start doing long range patrols in a type 9, this SHOULD be a factor. Especially if your just sitting there with the engines off, waiting on a known convoy route. To me, this does more for immersion, then spiffy graphics. It forces you to make decisions rather then idle your time away. But i degress, compared to some folks, im probably a rivet counting nerd, as id prefer to be able to run my Diesal engines selectively and independantly, or control how many degrees i put on the dive planes. Isn't that what a submarine simulation was supposed to be about?

For the most part I side with mookiemookie. I don't want the devs wasting vauable time on overly complex, knitpicking, small stuff but, Ducimus makes some valid poimts.

Aprox. quote, "Remaining Provisions: 45 days", is not a bad idé. It would certainly limit the amount of time one could spend almost continualy submerged for bad weather and the like.
It sounds like a simple thing to add but, I'm neither a programmer nor developer, nor do I know how much time would have to be spent on historical research.

I think we're probably all guilty of taking, what BDU would consider, too long in getting to our patrol grids, at least on some patrols. A possible workaround solution would be to include a time and date to arrive on station. Being tardy costs renown, big time.

The devs seem to be taking our interests into consideration, and implementing whats feasable. I think they're not going to disappoint us. Actualy, I think their knowledge base has expanded to where they can implement the affects of dwindeling provisions without having to bog us down with all the details, which suits me fine.

[JScones]

IMHO as soon as the devs start considering incorporating provisions, they'd have to consider the fact that in RL Kaleuns did, from time-to-time, raid attacked merchants of livestock and other foodstuffs, thus increasing their provisions. Without incorporating this aspect as well, then any attempt at modelling provisions will just be superficial, incomplete and useless.

Having said that though, a "provisions left" indication might be an acceptable compromise, as long as hitting 0 had no impact on my crew, unless I also had a way of increasing provisions whilst at sea.

But again, I'd rather see fully implemented game-play features over half attempts at the peripheries.

[cappy70]

I know,I know, I copied and paste from another posting, but I thought it would fit in here too regarding this issue and my point of view regarding micromanagement and ev. problems that might arise with that:

""Well,,during a time when I was doing quality/patch testing for a space sim that made it fine in sales, this question came up about the realism in the spacship/mothership. Somebody asked about how to have people walking around and doing their daily routines on the ship and walk around.
Of course this was some CPU generation back, but it was a balance of what would happen when all these 500 little guys started to move around inside the ship and do their things and of course the CPU is working on this, overtime, and smooth this out with all the rest going on the screen.
I think the answer from one of the programmers showed this: ",,the only thing I have to do is a game within the game".As I said this was some CPU generation back, but I think that "moving" realism, i.e. smart interaction a la NPC action that one could see now and then in Oblivion is possible,( like when I did a break in Oblivion and the man missed hitting me and hit the woman instead and she killed the man while I was watching was impressive sponatanious AI for a game, ) but with a price down the road....that you need a real beefy system for example.
What I'm referring to here is the level of AI in Wolfpacks and interaction and belive it, I want Wolfpacks too..no doubt.
...and I do agree with Sailor Steve ""

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by JScones

Having said that though, a "provisions left" indication might be an acceptable compromise, as long as hitting 0 had no impact on my crew, unless I also had a way of increasing provisions whilst at sea.

As i recall, the Kriegsmarine has some of these floating around:

But again, I'd rather see fully implemented game-play features over half attempts at the peripheries.

Umm, so far from what ive seen, isn't that what SH5 is all about? Peripheries? People put so much emphasis on eyecandy for "immersion", but less on what makes up a simulation. SH5, as so far, seems like its going to put heavy emphasis on eyecandy while not really changing the core gameplay mechanics all that much.

Now don't get me wrong, eyecandy has its place, but it should not be held on such a pedestal, as to deny the details that make up a sim, or to be used as a reason to not improve upon those details. Unfortunatly, If anything, all the majority of the community has probably shown the dev's over the last few years is they want to be entertained by feeling their in an interactive version of Das Boot, and don't want to be bothered with the details.

edit:

Originally Posted by BlueFlames

To the point of provisions, though, it was my understanding that U-Boats tended to be overstocked, even late in the war. If Ubisoft has the time and inclination to implement provisions and rationing and so forth, I certainly won't argue, but if fuel was typically the limiting-factor in a patrol, I don't necessarily see the need to add another limitation that is not likely to ever be an actual limitation.

Here's the thing. In SH3, you can sit there, at an all stop, doing 0 knots, and advance the time compresson. And so long as you never fire up your engines by moving, you can sit there for two months, three months, four months, etc. You can sit there for as long as you like. Now in SH4, you still do burn some fuel, even just sitting there, so that does limit your patrol time. However, if my patrol time is going to be limited (which i agree it should be), then id rather it not be by having the fuel constantly being used up. Id like to save that for high speed chases if i can.

[kapitan_zur_see]

Originally Posted by JScones

A more polite version of what I'm thinking.

An even more polite version of what i'm thinking...
If it wasn't for all those "rivet counters" questions posted everywhere, the devs couldn't pick up insignificant questions and would be forced to answer major gameplay related one, or major questions about atmosphere. And thus grabing more ideas from us on the big pictures only.
For pete's sake, we already knows from 4 previous SH game how realism settings are implemented!!!

[karamazovnew]

I can't understand why anyone would disagree with having limited drinking water and food. Of course there would be no point in having a full load of fuel if you die of starvation at 50% fuel. And if you just shut down the engines and stay in the middle of the Atlantic for 6 months, the crew is bound to mutiny because of lack of morale, but still, it can't be too hard to implement a morale system that also shows it's components (patrol duration, crew health, quality of food, limitation to higene due to diminishing water supplies etc.). No need to model the byte marks on the bananas in the control room or animate the meat boiling in Markus' soup pan

[BulSoldier]

Good thing is drinking water wont run out. Anyway i will be happy if food is implemented in this way:

You have limited food supply (30 / 45 / 60 or whatever days).You also have an option to change the rations from full to 3/4 or 1/2 .The first wont effect the morale, but the later will decrease the morale faster. I think it is completly reasonable and not too much of a challange for the devs.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by karamazovnew

And if you just shut down the engines and stay in the middle of the Atlantic for 6 months, the crew is bound to mutiny because of lack of morale,

Simple solution: don't do that.

[kptn_kaiserhof]

i agree with twistedFemur im also sick or bernard

[TwistedFemur]

Originally Posted by WEBSTER

no way, i dont want to read a year long thread on how the bananas are curved the wrong way or the grapefruit shouldnt be that color.

realism is nice but i dont want to see the toilet paper in the head either even if it should be seen in real life

or see the mess when bernard clogs the toilet