Have you guys ever had an epiphany?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

So you have accepted that you will be a financial failure. Congratulations!

Let me guess, European, or Obama Democrat. Kudos for your experience.

Damn materialist!

If enough is not enough, then it never will be enough. That's what usually is called "chasing the money".

But what he actually says is that he has understood that if you have enough, then it is enough - and that there must be more in a life than just gaining possessions that sooner or later wane again.

And seeing it like this, is wise.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Damn materialist!

If enough is not enough, then it never will be enough. That's what usually is called "chasing the money".

But what he actually says it that he has understood that if you have enough, then it is enough - and that there must be more in a life than just gaining possessions that sooner or later wane again.

And seeing it like this, is wise.

I guess for folks without ambition and wish to complain about other's success this is a wise course. But making something of ones self is hardly without reward. in a fair world we call that making money and capitalism. The alternative is mediocracy at best. Who wants to be known as mediocre, or worse?

[Skybird]

Are you aware that you need to put it to extreme interpretations in order to make your point on mediocrity? If somebody lives his life in a way where he can support himself and those next to him, does not depend on the money of others, and says that instead of raising himself a monument or building a big company he prefers to invest the rest of his free time for something he sees as more valuable to him, may it be for example family, or arts, or charity, or whatever - I fail to see what makes that "mediocre" a way to spend one's life. You define "ambitions" purely materialistically, and that is the essence of materialism/capitalism: that there is nothing of value in life that goes beyond material gains, possessions and money.

But that is simply not true, but indeed a very poor way to see life. If you were right, people should be the happier the more money and business succees they have. But that is not true, and especially very successful people in banking, medicine, big business, often pay a physical price for their excessice work overload, in becoming ill, physically or/and mentally.

Man does not live by bread alone. There must be more.

And just for the record, Castout has not complained about people being successful.

And finally, what is "success". Is it to be defined by just the level of admiration for you by others, as you express above? I would not necessarily call that "successful" beyond a purely statistical statement. To me it has more to do with being "fremdbestimmt" (nonautonomous). And to me somebody is the more unsuccessful in his life the more he is depending on others, both materialistically or intellectually and psychologically. Autonomy - is an alternative to a purely financial description of success. You may have let'S say some idealistic intentions, for which to realise you need to raise money. Okay, fine with me. But here the material aspect does not become the decisive criterion to judge success, but is just a tool. Success is to what degree that idealistic vision gets realised - whether it be by raising the needed money, or realising it in another legal manner.

Money as a tool is one thing. Declaring it the meaning of life - is something different. And the admiration of others - sorry, I am beyond that, really. I only really care for the opinion of people about me whom I really know and to whom I have a relation that I consider to be valuable to me. To know that there is a million of people knowing that I exist and just did this or that - means nothing to me.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Are you aware that you need to put it to extreme interpretations in order to make your point on mediocrity? If somebody lives his life in a way where he can support himself and those next to him, does not depend on the money of others, and says that instead of raising himself a monument or building a big company he prefers to invest the rest of his free time for something he sees as more valuable to him, may it be for example family, or arts, or charity, or whatever - I fail to see what makes that "mediocre" a way to spend one's life. You define "ambitions" purely materialistically, and that is the essence of materialism/capitalism: that there is nothing of value in life that goes beyond material gains, possessions and money.

But that is simply not true, but indeed a very poor way to see life. If you were right, people should be the happier the more money and business succees they have. But that is not true, and especially very successful people in banking, medicine, big business, often pay a physical price for their excessice work overload, in becoming ill, physically or/and mentally.

Man does not live by bread alone. There must be more.

And just for the record, Castout has not complained about people being successful.

I see and know your point Skybird, and don't dismiss it out of hand. The point I am trying to make is that an epiphany about not having to make money should go hand-in hand with one about what one will do with ones life.

As an example. Bill Gates certainly had an epiphany in his garage. It wasn't about making money, it was about changing how computers work. MS DOS changed everything and Gates was rewarded for it.

I didn't get any feeling Castout knows what he wants to do other than not make money.

[Skybird]

He did not say he does not want to make money. He said something like that he must no longer crave for making more money than he actually needs for a living, that'S how I got him when he said he is no longer priporitizing what he called "financial success. He said that he felt accepted in life in a way that was somewhat "universal" - and obviously was totally independent from financial criteria.

If I would think he just started a self-glorifying parade in order to get rewared a social wellfare-ticket over religious reasons and not needing to make his living himself anymore, I would be the first to wash his head, or else kick his back. I love religion, have you forgotten?

as long as he does not claim any right to demand others needing to pay for his future mental/religious/spiritual/whatever intentions, I see no problem , for the only one being materialistically effected by his new understanding - is himself.

Well what he said was....

Two days ago I just had my first epiphany. I wasn't making it up it suddenly came to me clearly that chasing after money or financial success is not my life calling..

And it certainly isn't everyones life calling. Not mine either. But to not have a calling for financial success can be interpreted as a calling to mediocrity.

I know it is none of my business, but what is the second part of the epiphany? What is he going to do with his life? The first part is telling him to be a bumb, please tell me there is a second part.

[Skybird]

I think we just let him clear it up. I referred to the same sentence, but I interpret him less literally than you seem to do. But we can know for sure only if he comments on it a little further.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Well what he said was....


And it certainly isn't everyones life calling. Not mine either. But to not have a calling for financial success can be interpreted as a calling to mediocrity.

Then you're judging everyone with how much money they make money is your yardstick in life. Bill gates is probably a mediocre singer and a lousy actor.
John of the cross is probably a lousy merchant but he was a great mystic.
A person may be a great soldier but is a mediocre businessman. But your view is shared by many people in today's world that measure a man's worth by how much money he is making.

I know a priest of certain monastic order who is very successful. In fact he is like no other man I know. Not even Obama. In my mind he is a great person. But he doesn't have a lot of money. If he wanted to stray from the righteous path he could even change history and the leaders of my country or at least making himself extremely wealthy. No joking. You would ask how could he? I mean he's just a priest . . .because money is your yardstick. The Somalian pirate leaders probably have more money than most of us. Is he a great man to you? There are people who ran away with people's money in my country I mean really lots of money in hundreds million of dollars and got away with it. You think they are great men?

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Skybird

If I would think he just started a self-glorifying parade in order to get rewared a social wellfare-ticket over religious reasons and not needing to make his living himself anymore, I would be the first to wash his head, or else kick his back. I love religion, have you forgotten?

as long as he does not claim any right to demand others needing to pay for his future mental/religious/spiritual/whatever intentions, I see no problem , for the only one being materialistically effected by his new understanding - is himself.

Hmm whatever I'm not looking for anything I'm merely speaking truth If that sounded like self glorifying then I guess you took me wrong but that really sounded glorious wasn't it? They are my victories in battle. I have a battle of ideology that you don't know anything about. If you thought I was boasting well I'm boasting that God is my helper that's all. Who is like God is my battle cry! I certainly don't need any free welfare ticket I just can't stand the mediocre people to put me down! Yes you are right that sounded glorious indeed! I didn't mean it to be self glorification though. But they are sure glorious indeed and I haven't even begun to write anything substantial.lol but people often cry cockiness to veil their jealousy and hatred. I haven't even begun to write anything substantial yet. That was nothing. I have a God that I want people to know! I have victories that I want people to know. I want everything good that God has done to me(not me myself) be eventually remembered by my own future children at the very least. I want people to know WHO IS LIKE GOD! So this is my battle cry WHO IS LIKE GOD!

In return of lies and cheats of my enemies I gave them the truth. I'm not desperate either as I have hope. I just would like to tell the world that they have GOD.
And if I died right now, today or tomorrow I could say what a glorious God you are! What a journey!

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Castout

Hmm whatever I'm not looking for anything I'm merely speaking truth If that sounded like self glorifying then I guess you took me wrong but that really sounded glorious wasn't it? They are my victories in battle (...)

Well, if you read me correctly you'll see that I defended you from a suspected accusation and did not say you were boasting, but I said that I assumed you to be exactly not on what i called a self-glorifying parade.