Steer course 000 - and KEEP IT!

10-07-09, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeonSamurai

Sure its impossible to sail a straight line in the ocean, and the ship will drift off its heading if left to its own devices, but your helmsman can and should keep the boat on a specified heading unless he is drunk or something.

well i spent most of my life on fishing boats and yes they are much smaller and harder to control but depending a lot on weather conditions i would have to work my tail off trying to hold a true course but over time you learn from experience to give up trying and just occassionally correct a few degrees as needed to correct your intended heading.

i see this so called heading "bug" as more realistic then a set course being held exactly. that said it could be a little more accurate than it is but i wouldnt want it to be too accurate.

FIREWALL · 10-07-09, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WEBSTER

well i spent most of my life on fishing boats and yes they are much smaller and harder to control but depending a lot on weather conditions i would have to work my tail off trying to hold a true course but over time you learn from experience to give up trying and just occassionally correct a few degrees as needed to correct your intended heading.

i see this so called heading "bug" as more realistic then a set course being held exactly. that said it could be a little more accurate than it is but i wouldnt want it to be too accurate.

WEBSTER

looney · 10-07-09, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WEBSTER

well i spent most of my life on fishing boats and yes they are much smaller and harder to control but depending a lot on weather conditions i would have to work my tail off trying to hold a true course but over time you learn from experience to give up trying and just occassionally correct a few degrees as needed to correct your intended heading.

i see this so called heading "bug" as more realistic then a set course being held exactly. that said it could be a little more accurate than it is but i wouldnt want it to be too accurate.

This is what I meant to say

thanks Webster

Donkey-Shot · 10-07-09, 04:14 PM

In reply to SteamWake and looney's post: a compass has 32 points.
I used to know em all by heart. If you wanna learn em all, check out this link:

http://www.thecompasscompany.com/32poofco.html

Note, this site rounds the number, but to be accurate: one point is 11,25 degrees (360 degrees / 32 points = 11,25 degrees)

Platapus · 10-07-09, 04:50 PM

I thought a circle had 6400 mils?

10-08-09, 12:59 AM

The only way I can think of to fix it, would be to plot ones Intended Course.
Any deviation therefrom, is up to us, to find, and correct.
It fits right in with all the Nav Posts and Threads.

The proper thing to do when faced with a Bad Helmsman:
QMOW makes a request to BMOW to replace him.
If this happens in a timely manner the sailer may only have to deal with a hurt ego, or at worse, some "Negative Renown" from the BM.
If it doesn't happen in a timely manner, and The OOD has to intervene, everybody's got a problem, starting with The QMOW for not catching it.

ichso · 10-08-09, 03:55 AM

The real question behind this thread is one that keeps coming up time and time again.
It is:
"Are you playing from the commanders POV or are you more like playing the U-boat as a whole ?"
And this little annoyance with the course becoming false correspondes to the latter case.

But personally, I don't like this 'feature' as well. It can be coped by plotting waypoints but if you try some more realistic approach of navigation in these games getting adrift gets really annoying sometimes.

Pisces · 10-08-09, 12:25 PM

It's actually a very simple fix. The code is allready there, and infact works... just not long enough. It should attempt to keep course until fatigue sets in or it is counter-ordered. When you give a steering command via periscope/UZO view, or through clicking on the compass dial, it gives full rudder until it almost turned to the commanded direction. There it reduces ruddersettings to not overshoot. (tries not to anyway, but usually fails by several degrees) A fine example of a (negative) feedback control loop, just as it should be. But when it comes within some threshold to the commanded direction it just simply stops adjusting the rudder and sets rudder amidship. There is no justification for this. The control-loop should not be broken.

Using a waypoint is not an appropriate solution. That is a steering-to-point mode, in which it actually constantly keeps adjusting until it has reached the point. The side effect is you introduce GPS-accuracy steering ability. The crewman allways knows where the waypoint is located and automatically adjusts for sideways/lateral drift to reach the point. All we need is continuous directional control. If it pleased/es the developers to implement real sea-currents and wind effects in SH5 navigation, we (hardcore navigators) would then have all the abilities to reliably reach where we want to be. (oh wait, don't forget the sextant

)

bert8for3 · 10-09-09, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donkey-Shot

In reply to SteamWake and looney's post: a compass has 32 points.
I used to know em all by heart. If you wanna learn em all, check out this link:

http://www.thecompasscompany.com/32poofco.html

Note, this site rounds the number, but to be accurate: one point is 11,25 degrees (360 degrees / 32 points = 11,25 degrees)

Yup, used to be that bearings were reported in points, see the old Hornblower books for example. A bearing would be reported as eg 2 points off some reference point, as eg 2 points to larboard (port). "Steer small" was to tell the helmsman in no uncertain terms to mind his steering and keep the ordered course. The helmsman's only job being to steer the ordered course regardless of drift, that being a concern for the navigating officers.

Sailor Steve · 10-07-09, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WEBSTER

i see this so called heading "bug" as more realistic then a set course being held exactly. that said it could be a little more accurate than it is but i wouldnt want it to be too accurate.

And I served on a destroyer for some time. Any helmsman who didn't hold a precise course would find himself doing a different job so fast his head would spin.

As I said, you should experience drift, even to the point of becoming lost, but when he is ordered to 000 you shouldn't find yourself on a heading of 280. I've had that happen.

Holding a perfect course as it does when you set waypoints isn't realistic, but neither is the wandering you get when you don't use the waypoints.

10-07-09, 04:50 PM	#5
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,399 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	I thought a circle had 6400 mils? __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

10-08-09, 03:55 AM	#7
ichso Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Germany's oldest city alive Posts: 1,066 Downloads: 57 Uploads: 0	The real question behind this thread is one that keeps coming up time and time again. It is: "Are you playing from the commanders POV or are you more like playing the U-boat as a whole ?" And this little annoyance with the course becoming false correspondes to the latter case. But personally, I don't like this 'feature' as well. It can be coped by plotting waypoints but if you try some more realistic approach of navigation in these games getting adrift gets really annoying sometimes. __________________ My Subskins: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=164169

10-08-09, 12:25 PM	#8
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	It's actually a very simple fix. The code is allready there, and infact works... just not long enough. It should attempt to keep course until fatigue sets in or it is counter-ordered. When you give a steering command via periscope/UZO view, or through clicking on the compass dial, it gives full rudder until it almost turned to the commanded direction. There it reduces ruddersettings to not overshoot. (tries not to anyway, but usually fails by several degrees) A fine example of a (negative) feedback control loop, just as it should be. But when it comes within some threshold to the commanded direction it just simply stops adjusting the rudder and sets rudder amidship. There is no justification for this. The control-loop should not be broken. Using a waypoint is not an appropriate solution. That is a steering-to-point mode, in which it actually constantly keeps adjusting until it has reached the point. The side effect is you introduce GPS-accuracy steering ability. The crewman allways knows where the waypoint is located and automatically adjusts for sideways/lateral drift to reach the point. All we need is continuous directional control. If it pleased/es the developers to implement real sea-currents and wind effects in SH5 navigation, we (hardcore navigators) would then have all the abilities to reliably reach where we want to be. (oh wait, don't forget the sextant ) __________________ My site downloads: https://ricojansen.nl/downloads

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10-07-09, 04:14 PM	#4
Donkey-Shot Watch Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 15 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	In reply to SteamWake and looney's post: a compass has 32 points. I used to know em all by heart. If you wanna learn em all, check out this link: http://www.thecompasscompany.com/32poofco.html Note, this site rounds the number, but to be accurate: one point is 11,25 degrees (360 degrees / 32 points = 11,25 degrees)

10-08-09, 12:59 AM	#6
Snestorm Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	The only way I can think of to fix it, would be to plot ones Intended Course. Any deviation therefrom, is up to us, to find, and correct. It fits right in with all the Nav Posts and Threads. The proper thing to do when faced with a Bad Helmsman: QMOW makes a request to BMOW to replace him. If this happens in a timely manner the sailer may only have to deal with a hurt ego, or at worse, some "Negative Renown" from the BM. If it doesn't happen in a timely manner, and The OOD has to intervene, everybody's got a problem, starting with The QMOW for not catching it.