New Charles Darwin film is 'too controversial' for religious American audiences

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Faith : not resting on logical proof or material evidence.
Language problems again

As humorous as you may think it......... science began with people of faith. Those illogical folks,

[Task Force]

I thought science began with people wondering what the truth is. not what faith tells them...

Originally Posted by Task Force

I thought science began with people wondering what the truth is. not what faith tells them...

Absolutely correct. But it didn't tell them having faith in God was wrong. Did it?

[Mush Martin]

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Absolutely correct. But it didn't tell them having faith in God was wrong. Did it?

also absolutely correct.


Everything evolves creatures plants organisms but far more than
that rocks shopping malls tools systems ever evolve. Evolution is
a process with no final product it is a continuing adaptation to an
ever changing environment and what works works. Crap even stars
evolve. Everything in the presence of time does period no exceptions.
the only difference is that in my M Theory universe God or Ed Whitton
is probably smart enough to have invented evolution.

Man is not Perfect Man is adaptable.

In closing I will say this much.

If I was a deity sitting around the multiverse one day trying to dream
up a chosen people I think I could dream up a chosen race that was
capable of crossing the road in good order unsupervised.

look around you.

M

[NeonSamurai]

Originally Posted by Mush Martin

If I was a deity sitting around the multiverse one day trying to dream
up a chosen people I think I could dream up a chosen race that was
capable of crossing the road in good order unsupervised.

look around you.

This made my morning

I have to say I've always had big issues with most of the world's religions. This is not to say that they have not done some good too, for many offer useful moral instruction on how to be better then what we are. The problem though is many forget that those moral instructions are meant to be applied to all and not just the favored group. Then further add to that the belief that their religion is the one and only "true" religion, and therefore all others must be wrong.

The concept of there being one "true" religion is utterly absurd. Through out human history there have been countless religions that have come in and out of existence. All with followers equally ardent in their belief that theirs is the "right" religion as Christians, Muslims, etc do today. Their god(s) also told them they were right in their belief. They then further went on to the conclusion that if all other religions are wrong, then these people must be shown the "light" or killed.

I think of my aunt and uncle who are deeply Christian (Anglican), they are good and kind people, and they believe absolutely. For my entire life they have tried repeatedly to show me the "light" and the "error of my ways". We have often gotten into arguments over it, and those arguments always end in them proclaiming that they are right absolutely with absolutely nothing to back up such a claim. They believe and stick their fingers in their ears and yell loudly when anything contrary comes along.

However one could attack science as well, or rather attack the believers in science. Science for many has become a religious system. Most people do not understand the workings of science, they accept what is preached to them by the higher authorities with out examination or critical thinking. One of the keys to being a good scientist is to be skeptical of everything, from the most iron clad theories, to your own results. There is an incredible amount of bad science going on in research. Bias (personal agendas) being the biggest cause of bad science; Bias due to financial reasons, career reasons, etc which cause results to be skewed or even fabricated. These results then get preached to the masses, and believed "true" by them.

I can't count how many scientific peer reviewed papers/journals I have personally read that were completely compromised, or how many 'scientists' I have met who are so blinded by their own egos that they cannot possibly see how their theories could be false. Then there are the corporations and groups intentionally creating false research/studies to sell their products. The scientific community is swamped with this rubbish.

The biggest problem with science as a religion though, is that it offers no moral compass or guidance. Science does not elevate us as a species or make us better then we were. It only offers a possible explanation to things. This is not to say that one needs to be religious to be moral, for I am moral and I do not have a religion. But religion has often helped push people into being more moral. We are seeing with our own society, what happens when a society does not have a solid moral foundation.

Oh and by moral I mean the basics: treat others as you would like to be treated, be good to your neighbor, don't lie steal cheat, don't cause harm, don't be too greedy, etc.

[Skybird]

I agree with your criticism of science business today, it's what I meant went criticising the academic routine of science. scientists make a living of their profession, they are not only polishing their narcissistic egos, but also are under pressure to come up with some reuslts and so and so many publications if they want to keep that job as professor, and with most, I think, it is like the latter. That such factors do not help the quality of academic work and scientific reasearch, must not be explained, then. Even more so when considering that universities are under immense pressure by interest groups from both the economy and politics to not approach a theme unbiased, but to produce the wanted confirmation for a wanted thesis, or results that already are packed and advertised and just need to be put on the shelves for sale and making profit from them as fast as possible.

Science must approach it's chosen objects unbiased and open-minded, and it must constantly counter-check and compare it's findings. Theories are no final words on the issue, but temporary working thesis that are constantly worked on. Scepticism here means not to take anything for granted, and not to prematurely ruling out things one cannot (or does not want!) to imagine. In the end, the attitude in which a scientist should approach nature is that of a child, that gets lost in contemplation for reasons of pure curiosity, and this curiosity is the basic drive. Knowledge may lead to technical innovations and new products, yes, but it has no obligation to exclusively focus on that, for knowledge is a value in itself. The systematic effort in the scientific work process just comes as a needed part of doing the job well.

Ultimate answers that will last for the rest of eternity I do not expect from sciences. What science gives us is to see the everchanging nature of our perception of what we call a universe, and to understand that we cannot differ between it and us but that we are a part of it that feeds back on it and gets influenced by it, and that the relation between "it" and "us" is ever-changing.

And that is almost in every aspect the complete antithesis to institutionalised religions.

[clive bradbury]

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Absolutely correct. But it didn't tell them having faith in God was wrong. Did it?

Actually that is exactly what it did, and continues to do, hence the ongoing increase in agnosticism and atheism. Funny what happens when humans begin to think for themselves and no longer cease to believe everything people tell them...

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Sigh. Something I want foreigners to understand about Americans: we're not all obese, white, monolingual Bible thumpers who think Sarah Palin is a credible candidate for national political office!!! Some of us believe in science, logic, etc., and possess some level of education.

[Task Force]

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

Sigh. Something I want foreigners to understand about Americans: we're not all obese, white, monolingual Bible thumpers who think Sarah Palin is a credible candidate for national political office!!! Some of us believe in science, logic, etc., and possess some level of education.

x1

[August]

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

Sigh. Something I want foreigners to understand about Americans: we're not all obese, white, monolingual Bible thumpers who think Sarah Palin is a credible candidate for national political office!!! Some of us believe in science, logic, etc., and possess some level of education.

Yeah and another thing I'd like foreigners to understand about Americans is that we're not all religion hating socialist jerks who think that Obama is some sort of political demigod whose worship demands we all surrender our freedom to the greater glory of the Party!

Some of us actually believe in liberty, self reliance and that charity is something one gives voluntarily instead of being forced by some faceless bureaucrat who has exempted himself from the process, and that we're just as logical and educated as the elitists who would tell you that we aren't.

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

Sigh. Something I want foreigners to understand about Americans: we're not all obese, white, monolingual Bible thumpers who think Sarah Palin is a credible candidate for national political office!!!

Anyone who thinks this is how things are in the states is an *******.

Originally Posted by August

Yeah and another thing I'd like foreigners to understand about Americans is that we're not all religion hating socialist jerks who think that Obama is some sort of political demigod whose worship demands we all surrender our freedom to the greater glory of the Party!

Anyone who thinks this is how things are in the states is also an *******.

Wingnuts on both sides are *******s.

Originally Posted by August

Some of us actually believe in liberty...

...to kill native Americans.

[Biggles]

Originally Posted by August

Yeah and another thing I'd like foreigners to understand about Americans is that we're not all religion hating socialist jerks who think that Obama is some sort of political demigod whose worship demands we all surrender our freedom to the greater glory of the Party!

I'm having a hard time to find any american that actually likes Obama, at least on the internet. Maybe the opposition is just noisier? I don't know...

[/QUOTE]
Some of us actually believe in liberty, self reliance and that charity is something one gives voluntarily instead of being forced by some faceless bureaucrat who has exempted himself from the process, and that we're just as logical and educated as the elitists who would tell you that we aren't.[/QUOTE]

And yet some of you (maybe even the same people as the ones mentioned above) refuse to show a movie in your own country that doesn't challenge liberty, self reliance or charity?

[AngusJS]

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Darwin's work is theory, yes? That means proof is necessary. I haven't seen any

Proof abounds, you just refuse to see it.

Reproduction produces variable traits in offspring. If a trait is advantageous to an organism, making it more likely for the organism to survive to adulthood and reproduce, then that trait will have a greater chance of being passed on, which over time can lead to speciation. Evolution is so simple and obvious, it'd be amazing if it didn't happen, and it should be completely non-controversial. That is, if it didn't contradict an ancient compilation of books written over hundreds of years by dozens of tremendously ignorant people who couldn't agree on much of anything.

why hasn't science investigated the Bible? Oh, they have, and cannot disprove it as an ecumenical document.

The miracles refute themselves. I know archaeology has shown that there's very little evidence for Exodus.

If your faith is science, be assured it will change. In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

If god said in the bible that the Old World continents were the only land masses on the planet, there would be millions of American Christians today inisting that North America was in fact Asia, or that it was created by the devil to fool us, or that the original passage was true but only in a metaphorical sense, etc. Anything but accept the fact that what their religion told them was wrong. Fortunately, science doesn't work that way.

Come onboard and Christ will save you!

If the only way to the father is through Jesus, why would he appear in 1st century Palestine and nowhere else? Did god think all the Asians, Africans, Australians and Americans should wait 1500 years for even a chance at salvation?

And how's that apocalypse coming along? Jesus spoke about it as if it was just around the corner. Strange that it's 2000 years later and it still hasn't arrived.

Originally Posted by AngusJS

And how's that apocalypse coming along? Jesus spoke about it as if it was just around the corner. Strange that it's 2000 years later and it still hasn't arrived.

He's held up in traffic coming back from the Andromeda Galaxy, clearly.

Either that or Heracles beat the **** out of him and left him for dead.