Simulations a dying breed... No says Paradox Interactive

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Dowly

I believe it when I see it. The dying thing that is. Few years back, they said PC gaming was dying, point+click adventure games were dying (they might be on life support, but they arent dead yet!) and yaadiyaa.

PC gaming better never die. I hate consoles and their clumsy controls.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

PC gaming better never die. I hate consoles and their clumsy controls.

Agreed. I'll take a keyboard and mouse over a controller any day.

[Sonarman]

It does make you wonder why Microsoft & Sony et al are so afraid of attaching a keyboard & mouse to their consoles to allow things like simulation games. Especially when you look back at the massive success of machines like the Amiga and C64 etc which provided a stable, level playing field for developers instead of the configuration nightmare of the modern PC. Do they really think that the addition of a keyboard & mouse would stop people buying consoles? They give their audience very little credit indeed.

[Max2147]

Simulations aren't dying off, they're just changing shape.

Before, simulations were designed by small developers, then distributed by big publishers like EA, Sierra, Ubi, and so on. The big publishers have moved on, but the small developers are still there. Instead of getting big publishers to distribute the game, they do it themselves now. The result is fewer copies sold, but also higher quality games.

For example, EA published a series of F1 sims made by ISI. When EA lost the F1 license, they cut ISI loose. ISI stayed together and made rFactor. Similarly, Papyrus made NASCAR sims for Sierra. When Sierra lost the NASCAR license, Papyrus became iRacing.com and produced their own sim.

[Blacklight]

Attatching a keyboard would make it seem too complicated for their "target market".
I still think that simulation games are in a SERIOUS decline as the younger players seem to "prefer" first person shooters and simple action games. Every year, I see less and less hardcore simulations being released and more of that action crap for the attention deficite disordered non-thinkers being released to fill in the gap.
Most people, even the older gamers tend to gravitate toward those action, arcade type games. Of all my friends who I grew up gaming with, I can't name a single ONE who enjoys simulation games, yet they all LOVE their Playstation 3's and Xboxes to the point where using a PC to play a game doesn't even cross their radar.
MOST people today don't want to take the time to LEARN anything complex. I've seen a perfect NON-video game example of this as well over the past years. I've been to various game conventions (board and miniature wargames, Dungeons & Dragons and other RPG stuff, etc..) and the people there are all old like me. There is very few younger people coming in to fill in the gaps left by the older crowd because these games actually require you to do a LOT of reading to learn to play. You have to put EFFORT into learning the games. The first thing the people I know ask when I toss a game out on the table is "Am I going to have to think ?" which prompts me to just sigh and pull the game off the table and shove it back in it's box. Everything is so instant gratification now, that people are missing out on a LOT of rewarding and entertaining stuff !

The market is unfortunately following this "mindless game" trend that the people seem to want.

[pozine]

Originally Posted by Blacklight

Attatching a keyboard would make it seem too complicated for their "target market".
I still think that simulation games are in a SERIOUS decline as the younger players seem to "prefer" first person shooters and simple action games. Every year, I see less and less hardcore simulations being released and more of that action crap for the attention deficite disordered non-thinkers being released to fill in the gap.
Most people, even the older gamers tend to gravitate toward those action, arcade type games. Of all my friends who I grew up gaming with, I can't name a single ONE who enjoys simulation games, yet they all LOVE their Playstation 3's and Xboxes to the point where using a PC to play a game doesn't even cross their radar.
MOST people today don't want to take the time to LEARN anything complex. I've seen a perfect NON-video game example of this as well over the past years. I've been to various game conventions (board and miniature wargames, Dungeons & Dragons and other RPG stuff, etc..) and the people there are all old like me. There is very few younger people coming in to fill in the gaps left by the older crowd because these games actually require you to do a LOT of reading to learn to play. You have to put EFFORT into learning the games. The first thing the people I know ask when I toss a game out on the table is "Am I going to have to think ?" which prompts me to just sigh and pull the game off the table and shove it back in it's box. Everything is so instant gratification now, that people are missing out on a LOT of rewarding and entertaining stuff !

The market is unfortunately following this "mindless game" trend that the people seem to want.

I agree... well, i'm not a no-life
but i enjoy sims... It seems people can't make the difference..
When i talk of a sim with a friend ( not my best friends tough ) they see in me the little no-life... I'M NOT NO-LIFE :rotfl:

first subsim i bought : Silent Hunter 2, The Guy said : Here's the big book for the hard sub game... I was like, : Cool
Time And Effort that's the solution for sims

All my friends play their Xbox and PS3... Fallout3, Oblivion, Fable2 CoD4, Battlefield Series...
forgotten many good action games. Yep they are good, i like them exept CoD4...
They see a sim they say : Uhhh bad graphics=bad game
Hard and long learning= BAd game really bad game... BORING!

I really hate people like that, it seems they can't use their brain like normal people...

I used many minutes to write this

[GoldenRivet]

my preference is for PC based games, I play almost no console based games despite owning a wii and xbox.

the wii - purchased for nothing more than drunken party entertainment.

the xbox - for visits from the niece, nephew and occasionally the brother and law and myself will play NFL Fever or something.

i would estimate that 97% of my gaming is limited to PC only.

and of that percentage of PC gaming... 90% falls within the simulation genre

[Task Force]

I myself dont like a good FPS from time to time... but simulators are what I mainly play... I find simulators are the only way to do things you would want to do... but never have to DO them... would I ever be able to command a submarine in real life... no... but in a sim I can from the safty of my own chair...

[Spike88]

Originally Posted by Sonarman

It does make you wonder why Microsoft & Sony et al are so afraid of attaching a keyboard & mouse to their consoles to allow things like simulation games. Especially when you look back at the massive success of machines like the Amiga and C64 etc which provided a stable, level playing field for developers instead of the configuration nightmare of the modern PC. Do they really think that the addition of a keyboard & mouse would stop people buying consoles? They give their audience very little credit indeed.

Mouses and Keyboards both work with the PS3. The issue is that no one codes games in which you can use them.

As for console Simulations Gran turismo counts, especially if you get the steering wheel and pedals. Plus you have ARMA II supposedly making a console appearance along with Operation Flaspoint Dragon Rising.
Plus there was one for the original Xbox that simulated a battle mech, called steel battalion, which used its own controller with joysticks, pedals, and a lot of buttons.

Here's a picture of the controller.

[stabiz]

Originally Posted by Spike88

As for console Simulations Gran turismo counts, especially if you get the steering wheel and pedals. Plus you have ARMA II supposedly making a console appearance along with Operation Flaspoint Dragon Rising.

I disagree, GT is more about car collecting and flashy visuals than driving simulation. Its good as console racing games go, but comes up short when compared to PC titles.

ARMA2 will have to wait, I really cant see how they will pull that of, and Operation Flashpoint 2 can hardly be called a simulation. What I have seen of the gameplay looks like Call of Duty 4 with one really big map.

If Arma2 comes without being dumbed down like for instance Race Pro (Race 07 on PC + some extra cars and a few American tracks for the US market) was, then yes, there will be simulators on consoles.

[Task Force]

fact is... you need more than afiew buttons to make a good sim run... on a pc you have over 100 of those buttons.

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by Spike88

Mouses and Keyboards both work with the PS3. The issue is that no one codes games in which you can use them.

As for console Simulations Gran turismo counts, especially if you get the steering wheel and pedals. Plus you have ARMA II supposedly making a console appearance along with Operation Flaspoint Dragon Rising.
Plus there was one for the original Xbox that simulated a battle mech, called steel battalion, which used its own controller with joysticks, pedals, and a lot of buttons.

Here's a picture of the controller.

No, gran does no coun as a simulatorm regardless of the peripherals. The driving physics are simply too arcade.

[Spike88]

If GT5 is arcade, then I dont know what counts as simulation.

As for ARMA II, I doubt it would have to be dumbed down, it could easily work on the PS3 and 360 in its current state.

I don't understand all the console hate.

[antikristuseke]

GTR2

[Task Force]

Fact is. a console game will never be as realistic as a pc game untill consoles take full use of a keyboad and mouse... Arma 2 has alot of comands and just the fiew buttons on a controler arnt enought to realisticly control your squad...

Also consoles do not have the power of a computer... games that are ported to console from pc will never be as good as the pc game. If sh3 was ported it would be an unrealistic Peice of S***, just like Il2 birds of prey, It was dumbed down from the origional il2...