Crazy Ivan MK14 works for me!

[Akula4745]

Yes sir... a MK14 gone crazy ivan will do a big circle and pop you in the stern if you are not watching. Had it happen to me personally (in the game of course)! LOL

[TLAM Strike]

I had my first today. Luckly I had my scope trained a 000 reltive so I saw the fish pop out of the water and turn to starboard. I whent deeper and speeded up to flank to get out of its way.

[Akula4745]

Too bad there wasn't a DD racing over to that spot! LOL

[Stealhead]

It is called a circle runner Akula made up the Carzy Ivan which was an unrealted Soviet Navy submarine move to let a NATO tracker know that he knew you where there.He used that because it happened to hit something.

The circle run can hit you really anywhere if you dont dive fast enough I had one and simply hit crash dive and went to external view to see what would happen and it just missed my bridge amd passed over me.

I am not sure that the Mk.14 was ever designed to have a pattern like that. form I have heard what went wrong was when the fish are fired they have been set with data to go guide them towards the target and at some point the rudders make a turn one time to head in the target deirection and then minor adjustments to stay on course sometimes the rudders jammed in that turn rather than going stright along the course that would head for the target according to the TDC data.Also I thought the Tang got hit by a mk.18 not a Mk.14. circle runner.The problem was for submarine torpedos there was nothing to stop the torpedo from going in a circle other types had a collar to stop this so they just went of course but did not turn in such amanner that they would boomarang.

If you are really bored then http://hnsa.org/doc/torpedo/index.htm#pg10
will tell you alot about how the torpeods function and http://hnsa.org/doc/tdc/index.htm will tell you all about the TDC.

[Akula4745]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

It is called a circle runner Akula made up the Crazy Ivan which was an unrelated Soviet Navy submarine move to let a NATO tracker know that he knew you where there. He used that because it happened to hit something.

LOL - well I couldn't help myself... "Crazy Ivan" just sounded so perfect for this!

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

I am not sure that the Mk.14 was ever designed to have a pattern like that. form I have heard what went wrong was when the fish are fired they have been set with data to go guide them towards the target and at some point the rudders make a turn one time to head in the target deirection and then minor adjustments to stay on course sometimes the rudders jammed in that turn rather than going stright along the course that would head for the target according to the TDC data.Also I thought the Tang got hit by a mk.18 not a Mk.14. circle runner.The problem was for submarine torpedos there was nothing to stop the torpedo from going in a circle other types had a collar to stop this so they just went of course but did not turn in such amanner that they would boomarang.

Yes the torpedoes that sank Tang and Tullibee were Mark 18 Mod 1s. But the problem was not limited to those weapons. The British had encountered them in WWI and the Germans lost one U Boat to them in WWII.

Here is the two paragraphs I was talking about in O'Kane's book...

“The question that immediately arose was why submarine torpedoes were not fitted with anti-circular run devices, a relatively simple addition to send them in to a dive should they turn beyond a specific limit. Erratic and even circular runs, though rare, did occur in peacetime torpedo exercises. In fact in wartime, then Commander Nesmith, V.C., had a circular run in the harbor of Constantinople back in 1915, but his submarine was submerged. Perhaps that was the answer. A submarine at periscope depth was well below the running depth of torpedoes set to hit a surface ship, and submarine surface operations as they evolved for certain circumstances during the war with Japan could not have been envisaged.

Still, in Pruitt (Note from T, A WWI era 4 piper destroyer) the Mark 8s and in Argonaut the Mark 15s, which were also used by destroyers, had anti-circular run devices. And then I remembered: Early in the period of Limited Emergency, some members of ComSubPac's staff, after witnessing a demonstration of destroyer antisubmarine proficiency at the sound school, were convinced that once a submarine was detected it would have great difficulty in escaping. The submarine base was therefore directed to provide the boats with rudder claps that could be used to make torpedoes circle as defensive weapons against destroyers that might be camped overhead. In Argonaut we had considered this to be silly, and they wouldn't work on our torpedoes with their anti-circular run devices anyways. But the staff obtained permission from the Bureau of Ordnance to deactivate the anti-circular run devices, thus doing away with this safety measure as a requirement in submarine torpedoes.”

From “Clear the Bridge! The War Patrols of the USS Tang” by Rear Admiral Richard H. O'Kane, USN. Pg 461-462.


Well there you have it another thing you can thank the Bureau of Ordnance for...