What's the difference between a soldier, an assassin, and a mercenary?

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

It takes many hours to remove the built in reluctance to take human life, unless you are an abortion doctor sworn to uphold the hypocratic oath.
Part of basic training is about breaking down the natural instinct which is built into everyone reguarding killing other human beings.

Killing has been around a lot longer than basic training. Personally I do not believe that there is a GENERALIZED natural instinct to not take a human life - instincts are proactive, and not taking a life is the default position). I believe that there IS a natural instinct to kill if threatened severly enough, however (this is supported by modern psychology).

Having been through basic training myself, I believe that there is very little in the way of breaking down any humanistic instincts. At least, not any more than there was on my highschool football team...

Originally Posted by Aramike

Killing has been around a lot longer than basic training. Personally I do not believe that there is a GENERALIZED natural instinct to not take a human life - instincts are proactive, and not taking a life is the default position). I believe that there IS a natural instinct to kill if threatened severly enough, however (this is supported by modern psychology).

Having been through basic training myself, I believe that there is very little in the way of breaking down any humanistic instincts. At least, not any more than there was on my highschool football team...

Some form of basic training has always been around both ancient and modern. The Spartans started vey young. The reason was to remove the base instinct not to take human life. Airforce basic isn't the same as basic for up close killers. You can always tell who the AF bus drivers are.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Some form of basic training has always been around both ancient and modern. The Spartans started vey young. The reason was to remove the base instinct not to take human life. Airforce basic isn't the same as basic for up close killers. You can always tell who the AF bus drivers are.

I suppose that it true, and I have erred in overlooking your point.

However, the remainder of my points regarding human nature still stand.

Originally Posted by Aramike

I suppose that it true, and I have erred in overlooking your point.

However, the remainder of my points regarding human nature still stand.

I for one am pleased that taking life is not the default position. Please do not take that to mean that taking a life to save multiple lives, or in the case of rape, arson etc. is beyond my comprehension, nor the that the 'castle doctrine' is out of bounds.

My previous statements were only contributed to place emphasis and more emphasis on what many do not consider when using deadly physical force.

[onelifecrisis]

Hookay, so far I'm disingenous, glib, arrogant, dishonest, thin skinned, depraved, snide... shall I go on? But no, you're not getting personal!

I'm not above petty fights and I'll bite sooner or later if this goes on. Hell, this very post is here (rather than in PM) more to serve my ego than anything else. This could have been PM'd, but then I'd lose face, right? I know you know what I'm saying. My offer to take this to PM is not a cop-out, it's an attempt to save this thread from our egos without losing out on your opinions on the topic which I actually do want to hear, as opposed to your opinions on me which I don't.

It's 22 hours since I slept (I've been at the damn Red Bull again, but it's wearing off) but I'll PM you tomorrow unless you say not to.

G'night.

[Aramike]

Hookay, so far I'm disingenous, glib, arrogant, dishonest, thin skinned, depraved, snide... shall I go on? But no, you're not getting personal!

When you put it like that...

Except, considering I'm the one that said those things, and DID NOT put it like that, it changes things. "Context" can be very important.

Besides, where the hell do you get off? You can claim that soldiers are evil with impunity, but as soon as someone claims that a person is depraved who believes that it is wrong to kill someone who's going to kill millions of people, now THEY are making it personal?

HUH?

I'm not above petty fights and I'll bite sooner or later if this goes on. Hell, this very post is here (rather than in PM) more to serve my ego than anything else. This could have been PM'd, but then I'd lose face, right? I know you know what I'm saying. My offer to take this to PM is not a cop-out, it's an attempt to save this thread from our egos without losing out on your opinions on the topic which I actually do want to hear, as opposed to your opinions on me which I don't.

Stop whining about "opinions on me".

Just so you know, I served. As have many people here. You're opinion that soldiers are evil are opinions on US. If you can't handle it the other way, then you should have kept quiet.

It's 22 hours since I slept (I've been at the damn Red Bull again, but it's wearing off) but I'll PM you tomorrow unless you say not to.

Go nuts, but understand - what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

G'night.

Ditto.

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

Just rambling but then again from the start I think it's healthy to make the difference between a soldier within the homeland borders and away.

I could go on and on and on with sadly funny (home) or downright ugly (abroad) personnal stories and friend's stories from "duty" but I think it can be summed by a couple numbers. In the french army there's at most 0.7 applicant for 1 job. The job pays 200 euros more than any other "non qualified" job, and you're sure to get it. When I left the army I had to post over 50 resumés to finally get a lousy job paying 900€ compared to the 1150 + benefits I was making in the army. Some people on this forum will want to use that to take a shot at the french as usual but before doing so take a look at the stats for your own army

So with that mind I'm never surprised when I hear in the news that this guy was charged with rape, this one was seen on a blog photo wearing nazi garment, this one accidentally discharged his firearm on a comrade etc etc.

I think it's safe to say that if an army has to resort to advertising and roaming streets to find recruits, then you can be sure things are going to be ugly especially when these people are deployed abroad. There is a huge difference between the actual stuff and the romantic vision of strong men placing duty above and giving up their life to "serve and protect".

Basically I agree with OLC's statement that soldiers are a necessary evil but an evil nonetheless.

Well at least it isn't forced conscription.

[Dowly]

Wait... how the hell did you guys turn a topic like this to a debate and personal attacks???

Soldier = On duty to defend/attack for one's country. Either volunteer or "forced" to (depends of the country).
Mercenary = Volunteer, either works for the money or just likes what he/she does.
Assassin = This would have tons of meanings. You kill someone publicly known or in high status = you are called an assassin. But I think you are looking for a more traditional explanation? Assassin as in hitman (no, not the game)? Well, a person who kills ppl for money and/or he/she is ordered to.

I'm sorry if I've missed something, but wouldnt that kinda be it? How in-depth story you want about the differences?

[UnderseaLcpl]

I think that the whole topic is more about the moral difference between the three at this point, Dowly.

Personally, I think they're making the whole thing much more complicated than it really is, but for the record;

Soldier= state combatant
Mercenary= professional private combatant
Assassin= state or private professional murderer

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

I think that the whole topic is more about the moral difference between the three at this point, Dowly.

Personally, I think they're making the whole thing much more complicated than it really is, but for the record;

Soldier= state combatant
Mercenary= professional private combatant
Assassin= state or private professional murderer

Simple, direct and succinct as usual, James.

I'm finding the discussion on the morality of the common soldier fascinating. Most people from countries which constitued the Allied side of World War Two will tell you that their side fought to save the world from tyranny, and that they did a great thing. And their arguments have merit. Others will say that all killing is wrong, and their arguments have merit as well.

My experience was in Vietnam, or rather off the the coast of that lovely country. I joined the navy because I thought I might get drafted into the army, and I'll be honest and simple - I didn't want to get shot at. The navy made me a radioman, so that even though my destroyer was on the gun line, giving fire support to the marines, doing escort duty for the aircraft carriers and lifeguard duty for the air force, I never did get shot at. I also never pulled any triggers, but I did recieve the reports from the marines we covered, including body counts after each engagement. I didn't like it, and was in fact quite disturbed by my own involvement in the deaths of many dozens of people who had never done anything to me.

One of the things that bothered me the most was the Concientious Objector status. People were allowed a deferment if they could prove a prior religious or moral objection to war in general. What bothered me was that deferments were not allowed for objecting to that war in particular. I came to believe that we were wrong to be there, and ended up obtaining an early release, still honorable in nature.

Is killing wrong? Definitely. Would I kill to protect my family or friends? I'd like to say "Without a second thought", but since I've never had to I can't say that for sure. Would I kill to protect an innocent stranger? I don't know.

Some people join the military to get the offered education. Some join because they see it as a duty. Some join because they want to learn the discipline of boot camp. Some join because they like the idea of a regimented life, where freedom is limited but all needs are taken care of. And some join hoping the opportunity will arise for them to be sanctioned to kill, because they want to give it a try. Much is said of honor and duty, but those who have been there end up talking about how horrible it is, when they talk about it at all.

I don't believe wars happen because "Old men send young men off to fight and die". I believe wars happen because young men feel a need to prove themselves. John Lennon once asked "What if they gave a war and nobody came?" He also suggested that the answer might be an international law ordering all soldiers to drop their trousers before pulling the trigger. Comedy trumps aggression almost every time.

Buffy Sainte-Marie's song said it as well as anything:
http://www.creative-native.com/lyrics/univelyr.htm