Questions about magnetic torpedoe firing

[UnterseeBoogeyMan]

My campaign is in '40. Down the road, should my Captain and her crew make it to '41 and beyond I want to try magnetic firing. I tooled around with this a year or so ago before I took my SH3/GWX sabbatical.
I intend to lab test this in the Academy portion of the game but wanted to get thoughts from the board on this.

- What is the max range you fire magnetics at?
- what is ideal Angle On Bow range you fire at? 30-65 degrees?
- Is it better to aim under the smoke stack and/or the middle of the keel?

I've read where misfires happened during the Norway invasion becuase of the high lattitude. I know an air gap exists south of Iceland that the Uboats used up to '43. Are magnetics reliable here?

I thank anybody that posts their opinions and insights.

[Paul Riley]

Max range really depends on what range you like to fire at.If you are a confident long range shooter then fire at 4-5km,or even more,I have hit targets at about 7km,but achieving success at that range is VERY rare.However,most people like to shoot at shorter ranges,and historically this was true,even as close as 300m,which is the closest you can get,for the warhead to arm itself.500m is about optimal.It also depends what year it is,later in the war and close range shooting becomes dangerous,so about 1-2km from a convoy flank is ideal.
When dealing with magnetics don't forget about premature detonations,and this becomes more likely the further out you are,the closer you are the less chance of it going off too soon.Also,don't use mags in high seas,storms etc (same reason,disturbances in the sea)

My ideal angles are at 90 degrees,running parallel to my target,however if I arrive in good time I can set up for a perpendicular shot.Using mag tips you are free to use extreme angles against ships,but make sure you are quite close,leaving no chance for the ship to evade.These sort of shots would more commonly be used against fast ships who you are struggling to gain on submerged,you could fire directly behind him,electric torp ideally,so he does'nt see it.

A mag torp will cause major damage no matter where it hits,as it passes directly under the keel,venting the force up and through into the ship structure,basically breaking its back,or tearing it into pieces.Usually yes,a shot under the stack and you could say "goodnight Vienna".

Helpful for you?

[UnterseeBoogeyMan]

Thanks Paul.

The extreme angles is what I wanted to employ for the later war years so thats where the mags would come into play. Extreme angles would open me up for shots outside of the convoy were the escorts to stay close in,as I've seen them do so far. I may try between 1 and 3 km. Right now,I only do impacts with 90 aob. I did a shot at 4 k on an aux cruiser going 17 knots. I took the shot becuase I couldnt get a closer one. Lucky it worked out too. So,with more practice the long range shots can be added. MAybe mandatory for the later years.

I'm going to guess beyond 4 km and no joy.

[Paul Riley]

Of course,long range shots are possible,even beyond visual range,but as you imagine the margin for error at these ranges is extremely high.You have the possibility of premature detonations,it may not hold its depth and drop before it hits anything,your settings could be out by just a fraction,but at extreme range this would be proportionally much larger.You may even forget to set the torpedo for slowest speed,so it can actually reach its target.
The further out you are (in my opinion) the speed setting is the most important torpedo setting,and I think it would be wise to even set the torpedo a knot or two faster (target speed).
For me mag torps can be very useful from the rear as I mentioned,and also when not able to get into optimal position,and any angle will have to do,yet at the moment I am still able to get into good positions,have'nt met ships faster than me yet,other than alerted warships.
Mag torps may also be better for very large ships,like battleships,as you would want to cause massive damage very quickly,for fear of some serious retaliation.

[nikbear]

I've found sea state has to very good to use mags as otherwise they pre-detonate,also the max range on them is 5000m although you can use them in rougher water at very short ranges without pre-detonation,say if a DD is on your tail,coming up to you on your baffels and is 400m's away then the shorter distance actually works in your favour
You can use Mags early in the war as long as your in a flat calm sea state and settings are minimal.If a ships keel is say 6m,then I usually set the mag to literally just past the 6m mark,as if it was 6.1 or 6.2 to take into account of any false depth keeping early on in the war that they can be prone to,
Later versions with improved triggers can be set a bit lower and work fine,on a ship with 6m keel you can set the dial to 6.5 or even 7m with no problems

[UnterseeBoogeyMan]

It seems like sea state is the determining factor. It would make sense, from what you guys, Paul and Nikbear are saying,you set the depth of the torpedo a half meter or less below the keel. In a choppy sea, the keel is bucking up an down. Should the torp set at mag hit the sloping side of the hull where it meets the keel and not beneath,it turns into a dud. Reason being the sloping angle doesnt allow the impact trigger to go off.

I figure,if I can reliably fire at 2 km with magnetics from afront or astern, that can give me some room to deal with ASW when the finally get better.

right now in '40,ASW is still weak. I just go in for the 90 aob shot from within 1000 meters and go deep. So far, that's working, so far.....

[Kapitan Soniboy]

How do you know the ship's keel??

[Synthfg]

Look in the recognition guide

[sharkbit]

Originally Posted by Kapitan Soniboy

How do you know the ship's keel??

Recog manual shows the draft. Set the mags to run 1 to 1.5 meters deeper.

[melnibonian]

Originally Posted by Kapitan Soniboy

How do you know the ship's keel??

As it is stated above you can see the draft on the recognition manual. The depth you set the torpedoes under the keel depends a bit on the weather conditions. If the sea is calm and the boat steady then 0.5m below the keel will do the job. If the sea is rough you're better off with a depth of 1-1.5m to compensate for the vertical movement of the ship.

[Pisces]

First and foremost, know the limits of the type of torpedo. As T1 have 3 speed settings (GWX: 14km@30kts; 8km@40kts; 5km@44kts), and T2 and T3 are limited to just one setting (GWX: 5km @ 30kts ) Firing at something that never comes that close is simply stupid.

Second, those T2 have that depth keeping issue in '39/'40. I don't know how quickly they loose that depth so I have no advice here. Not on the predetonation either.

Third, I think, range TOTALLY depends on the accuracy of your targeting work, and the ship length involved. Magnetic or not. The direct influence of range in the lead calculation can be nullified by firing with 0 gyro angle. But it still is a BIG factor in the chance of a hit due to uncertainty/measurementfaults in speed. AOB is also a factor, but if the torpedo impact 90 degrees to the hull this is minimal. If you want to impact away from that (between 60-120 or worse) make sure the AOB is correct. If the measured target speed (actually, whatever you set into the TDC dial) is different from the real target speed, the lead for the torpedo is also wrong by a (almost) proportional amount. At a certain distance this aiming error (in degrees) becomes a certain length that must be contained by halve of the target-length (when aimed at mid-ship)or else it could pass the target beyond the bow or aft. So this depends on the accuracy of your work and the particular ship. Longer ships are more forgiving at a certain range, or can be hit at longer ranges with the same targeting accuracy. Twice as far means halve the chance, or twice as large the target must be. So this is very dependant on your style. No direct rules I am afraid. Just to give it alot more time than just 3m15s.

[Murr44]

In rougher seas (7-9m waves) I've found that setting the speed (on T1's) to medium or slow can lessen the chance of premature detonation if you want to use a magnetic influence pistol.

[UnterseeBoogeyMan]

Good thoughts everybody. Come '41, I'll try these out. Until then it's impact and 90 aob. Good Hunting, Komrades

[karamazovnew]

One year into the war, 400k tons sunk, all thanks to the T2 with impact detonator set to minimum depth. Fire range 500-1000 m for single targets, 3000-4500 for heavily guarded convoys. A magnetic detonator should break any ship in half but while using them I actually had worse results even when they did explode on target. Even 2 popcicles coouldn't bring down a medium cargo. Maybe the damage model isn't that good and can't count in the flooding effects?

[Leandros]

Originally Posted by UnterseeBoogeyMan

Good thoughts everybody. Come '41, I'll try these out. Until then it's impact and 90 aob. Good Hunting, Komrades

I am in August '41 and still having problems with magnetic fuzes and depth-keeping. As stated above, sea state and range is important. There is very little else to choose from than the magnetic fuze when in self-defense mode against a destroyer approaching fast as both types of torps are also still quite sensitive to the impact angle - when on impact fuze.

In RL the reason for the depth-keeping problems wasn't properly discovered untill '43. In the meantime many crews adapted their own modified techniques. The angle of hit capability was also improved, going back to a simpler, WWI-era system (actually copying the British, I think).