Is Obama beginning to 'get it' "debt unsustainable"

Dowly · 05-15-09, 06:49 PM

@Aramike

May I ask, to compensate what you think part of the oil should be confiscated?

CaptainHaplo · 05-15-09, 10:08 PM

Dowly, we not only overthrew a repressive, murdering dictator and GAVE them their country back, we currently are spending OUR money to help them stay safe in their streets and keep their duly elected by the people government in place as it continues to try and stabilize itself.

This does not even count the cost of the lives we have spent, not just in deaths, but in injuries that cannot be healed by medicine today.

Maybe a little appreciation in the form of resources they have, that we need, freely SHARED (as we have shared our blood and money) in thanks would be nice for once.

Its not widely known but when Kuwait was freed, the ruling family offered to pay every single soldier that participated a hefty sum - in thanks for freeing their country. Bush 1 said no - he was afraid it would make us appear as mercenaries. Our economy was doing ok at the time. These days are different - and while Iraqi parliment members CONTINUE to fight over how oil revenues will be distributed, our men and women fight and die, with resources we provided.

I dunno, think maybe there is a bit of moral debt there?

Buddahaid · 05-16-09, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Dowly, we not only overthrew a repressive, murdering dictator and GAVE them their country back, we currently are spending OUR money to help them stay safe in their streets and keep their duly elected by the people government in place as it continues to try and stabilize itself.

Don't lose sight of how the USA backed Sadaam, and helped to ensure his control of the country to keep the Soviets out. We helped to make Iraq what it was! Yes, Sadaam was a cruel tyrant, but that is what it took to keep the country whole as we're finding out like it or not. Also, before Sadaam, Iraq was controlled by the British for many, many years. The educated people want their independance. The uneducated are manipulated and religiously intolerant. How do you win against those who believe they have a God given right to murder infidels? Very tough problem given the tools of modern warfare.

Buddahaid

Stealth Hunter · 05-16-09, 01:10 AM

The funny thing of it is, to respond to Budda's post, is that these terrorists really have never needed supplies from anyone. Most of them were members of the Mujahideen, a fanatic group of rebels who, when Russia invaded the Middle East, stood up against them (really, though, the name is an Arabic word meaning "strugglers"). The United States and most of the European nations agreed to support these rebels with arms, equipment, and money. So really, they're just reusing what we gave them a few decades ago lol.

Aramike · 05-16-09, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Dowly, we not only overthrew a repressive, murdering dictator and GAVE them their country back, we currently are spending OUR money to help them stay safe in their streets and keep their duly elected by the people government in place as it continues to try and stabilize itself.

This does not even count the cost of the lives we have spent, not just in deaths, but in injuries that cannot be healed by medicine today.

Maybe a little appreciation in the form of resources they have, that we need, freely SHARED (as we have shared our blood and money) in thanks would be nice for once.

Its not widely known but when Kuwait was freed, the ruling family offered to pay every single soldier that participated a hefty sum - in thanks for freeing their country. Bush 1 said no - he was afraid it would make us appear as mercenaries. Our economy was doing ok at the time. These days are different - and while Iraqi parliment members CONTINUE to fight over how oil revenues will be distributed, our men and women fight and die, with resources we provided.

I dunno, think maybe there is a bit of moral debt there?

You know Haplo, even though we may disagree mightily on some issues, I do enjoy how we often agree on a great many things as you tend to do an outstanding job at making your perspective clear.

Quote:

Well it sure as hell wasent our own. For some reason we cant tap our own resources... go figure.

So true, Steamwake.

CaptainHaplo · 05-16-09, 10:22 AM

Thank you Aramike, and I would say the same.

Buddahaid, yes we helped backed Saddam at one point. Thats fact, but it doesn't change a thing. Everybody makes mistakes. We had slavery at one point too. So somehow the errors of those before us somehow should mean that we, who were not responsible for the error, still must shoulder the blame?

If one were to take your argument seriously, you could claim that any living american today is responsible for the entire current mess of the middle east, because the US was a part of helping to create israel, because we helped keep afghanistan free from the soviets, because we didn't support the Shah in Iran in what - 73 I think it was - as well as supporting guys like saddam 40 or so years back.

I don't know if your from the US, or how old you are, but if your from the US, go ask a high schooler or college kid about how responsible they feel for that whole mess. While your at it, ask them how they are going to repay the debts of slavery, the losses in life and property to the British Crown due to the war of Independance, etc etc etc. While we are at it, ask them when they are going to give the american indians their country back...

*BTW - I don't use the term Native American - because I am one - I was born in the US and thus am a "NATIVE" and an American. Blasted PC Culture be damned!

At some point you have to stop wringing your hands over the past and move forward. Be responsible for your own actions, thats often enough a challenge for most people.

SteamWake · 05-15-09, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

@Aramike

May I ask, to compensate what you think part of the oil should be confiscated?

Well it sure as hell wasent our own. For some reason we cant tap our own resources... go figure.

Aramike · 05-16-09, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

@Aramike

May I ask, to compensate what you think part of the oil should be confiscated?

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking...

05-15-09, 10:08 PM	#2
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Dowly, we not only overthrew a repressive, murdering dictator and GAVE them their country back, we currently are spending OUR money to help them stay safe in their streets and keep their duly elected by the people government in place as it continues to try and stabilize itself. This does not even count the cost of the lives we have spent, not just in deaths, but in injuries that cannot be healed by medicine today. Maybe a little appreciation in the form of resources they have, that we need, freely SHARED (as we have shared our blood and money) in thanks would be nice for once. Its not widely known but when Kuwait was freed, the ruling family offered to pay every single soldier that participated a hefty sum - in thanks for freeing their country. Bush 1 said no - he was afraid it would make us appear as mercenaries. Our economy was doing ok at the time. These days are different - and while Iraqi parliment members CONTINUE to fight over how oil revenues will be distributed, our men and women fight and die, with resources we provided. I dunno, think maybe there is a bit of moral debt there? __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

05-16-09, 10:22 AM	#6
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Thank you Aramike, and I would say the same. Buddahaid, yes we helped backed Saddam at one point. Thats fact, but it doesn't change a thing. Everybody makes mistakes. We had slavery at one point too. So somehow the errors of those before us somehow should mean that we, who were not responsible for the error, still must shoulder the blame? If one were to take your argument seriously, you could claim that any living american today is responsible for the entire current mess of the middle east, because the US was a part of helping to create israel, because we helped keep afghanistan free from the soviets, because we didn't support the Shah in Iran in what - 73 I think it was - as well as supporting guys like saddam 40 or so years back. I don't know if your from the US, or how old you are, but if your from the US, go ask a high schooler or college kid about how responsible they feel for that whole mess. While your at it, ask them how they are going to repay the debts of slavery, the losses in life and property to the British Crown due to the war of Independance, etc etc etc. While we are at it, ask them when they are going to give the american indians their country back... *BTW - I don't use the term Native American - because I am one - I was born in the US and thus am a "NATIVE" and an American. Blasted PC Culture be damned! At some point you have to stop wringing your hands over the past and move forward. Be responsible for your own actions, thats often enough a challenge for most people. __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

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05-15-09, 06:49 PM	#1
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,053 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	@Aramike May I ask, to compensate what you think part of the oil should be confiscated?

05-16-09, 01:10 AM	#4
Stealth Hunter Silent Hunter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Y'ha-Nthlei Posts: 4,262 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	The funny thing of it is, to respond to Budda's post, is that these terrorists really have never needed supplies from anyone. Most of them were members of the Mujahideen, a fanatic group of rebels who, when Russia invaded the Middle East, stood up against them (really, though, the name is an Arabic word meaning "strugglers"). The United States and most of the European nations agreed to support these rebels with arms, equipment, and money. So really, they're just reusing what we gave them a few decades ago lol.