Surface Attack?

Armistead · 05-14-09, 12:42 AM

One of the dangerous things about surface attacks it you can't always be sure what skill level the enemy crews are. You come against a veteran crew.....you're in trouble.

swmicros · 05-14-09, 01:35 AM

I recently tried a surface attack in a complete blinding rain storm and was still spotted!? My normal MO is surface while outside 10nm, decks awash until about 5nm, then PD for the final lineup and shoot. Seems to work for me!

Peto · 05-14-09, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

One of the dangerous things about surface attacks it you can't always be sure what skill level the enemy crews are. You come against a veteran crew.....you're in trouble.

Yes--AI crew level is very important to your chances. I'd say as important as weather conditions and your speed and aspect angle.

Stealhead · 05-14-09, 03:37 PM

I never thought of this but one reason some stock players have such trouble is because they may be used to getting very close range while submerged like in the middle of a convoy and this is really not very accurate but you can get away with it thanks to the ditsy AI. So they may be used to getting so close. I dont think stock takes into account darkness as a line of site limiter like the mods do and that is what makes a surface attack at anything but less than very long range a no go with stock and getting a bit closer with the mods possiable. Though there is no way to be sure sometimes you can get spotted other times not. But i have gotten pretty close to what turned out to be a crack DD at least when I was underwater but he was not crack enough to avoid my mk.27 it cracked him.

Armistead · 05-14-09, 06:03 PM

If you're playing to protect your crew, surface attacks are almost impossible. One way to test all your motives is have the next/previos cam on and put it on the nearest dd as you make your attack. I took a lot of time studying how they react, often switching from ship to ship. You can change speed, ect....and then the guns start turning. I even changed direction once and the second I did, his guns started turning.

I did a few last night. One a fairly large convoy. The light fog helped a lot and I got within 1600 yards before a ship opened up. Everyone mentioned many good factors, but the game isn't real life in this aspect. I'll stick to submerged attacks. One good shell hit can kill all your best gunners.

pythos · 05-14-09, 06:19 PM

This is an area where Sh4 and 3 fail.

I am reading Donitz's book, and according to the grand admiral of the german navy surface attacks, at night were carried out at, get this, less than 200 yards.

The secret? Come in with your casing or deck awash.

I have done such attacks with a German boat. It has to be at night, and don't close to less than 300 meters. Needless to say this is really close, just outside the torpedo arming range. But it seems to work.

I was marauding INSIDE a convoy after passing through the screen. My presence was given away when I fired my first two shots. Then a moment later all hell broke loose. Star shells from the destroyers, and merchants trying to ram me. In real like my boat would have been iluminated by the flames of the two ships I succeeded in hitting.

Nice thing about running decks awash, the dive is very quick. The not so great thing about decks awash is that 1) it slows your boat down a lot, and 2) with RFB, and OM it is hell to set. For some reason the depth setting does not follow what is on the scale. In order to get the boat to run at 7 meters, I need to set 7.5. If I set it at 8 I start running on electrics.

I got away from the initial point of this post, which is...Yes, surface attacks can be done at very close range, which minimizes the effect of faulty torpedos, or solutions.

Stealhead · 05-15-09, 02:27 AM

How dose SH4 fail at surface attacks have you not read that they can be done? And TMO and RFB are only mods they just changed how the AI works so it still is SH4. I must completey diasagree with your statement. And in WWII US subs had surface attacks that worked others failed completey. It is fully beliveable to me that some times when you dont think they will that the AI attacks you it is very murphys law just like in war things dont go according to plan. And Iam not sure I belvive the getting within 200yds that is very hard to belive at that range a blind watchman would have seen them not to mention that the sub could get damaged or destroyed if a large explosion occured.If you go inside a convoy the odds they will spot you are very high that is why I dont do it but you can get within 2000yds fire your fish and turn away never to be found by the Jap DDs.Some people who play this game have a I must sneak in super close closer than i need to be. Why do that when you can get well within torpedo range without getting so close that the ships crew could piss over the side of the ship and it hit your subs hull? If you do that might as well trade in your Gato for one of those kaitens(or how ever you spell the sucide subs)

Kapitan Soniboy · 05-21-09, 08:10 PM

Hello fellow submariners

. I did a night surface attack just recently and it was extremely satisfying (I'm sick, I know).

Middle of the night with perfect calm sea and weather. Spotted a convoy of four large merchants with two DD escorts in front and rear of the merchants. I approached at 3 knots and at a range of 4000 yards exatly which is the range of the electric torpedoes. My Balao gave two of the largest merchants three torpedoes each. Since the electric torpedo is fairly slow, it gave me time to turn and slip away in the shadows, slowly increasing speed.

When the lucky ones got their presents, I was gone. I think the destroyers were kinda smart since they immediately turned to me and started depth charging around the spot where I had just been when I first launched my torpedoes. At that time I had submerged and the destroyers couldn't find me.

This is why I dive and turn immediately when I fire my torps at periscope depth because the destroyers seem to head in the direction where the fish came from...

A successful attack at night when surfaced is a great feeling. Best game ever.

And by the way, I play Trigger Maru which I think makes the game so much better. Cheers!

Edit:
90% realism (In Trigger Maru It says 90..)

05-21-09, 08:10 PM	#8
Kapitan Soniboy Torpedoman Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Bergen, Norway Posts: 114 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Hello fellow submariners. I did a night surface attack just recently and it was extremely satisfying (I'm sick, I know). Middle of the night with perfect calm sea and weather. Spotted a convoy of four large merchants with two DD escorts in front and rear of the merchants. I approached at 3 knots and at a range of 4000 yards exatly which is the range of the electric torpedoes. My Balao gave two of the largest merchants three torpedoes each. Since the electric torpedo is fairly slow, it gave me time to turn and slip away in the shadows, slowly increasing speed. When the lucky ones got their presents, I was gone. I think the destroyers were kinda smart since they immediately turned to me and started depth charging around the spot where I had just been when I first launched my torpedoes. At that time I had submerged and the destroyers couldn't find me. This is why I dive and turn immediately when I fire my torps at periscope depth because the destroyers seem to head in the direction where the fish came from... A successful attack at night when surfaced is a great feeling. Best game ever. And by the way, I play Trigger Maru which I think makes the game so much better. Cheers! Edit: 90% realism (In Trigger Maru It says 90..)

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05-14-09, 12:42 AM	#1
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	One of the dangerous things about surface attacks it you can't always be sure what skill level the enemy crews are. You come against a veteran crew.....you're in trouble.

05-14-09, 01:35 AM	#2
swmicros Watch Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 27 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	I recently tried a surface attack in a complete blinding rain storm and was still spotted!? My normal MO is surface while outside 10nm, decks awash until about 5nm, then PD for the final lineup and shoot. Seems to work for me!

05-14-09, 03:37 PM	#4
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	I never thought of this but one reason some stock players have such trouble is because they may be used to getting very close range while submerged like in the middle of a convoy and this is really not very accurate but you can get away with it thanks to the ditsy AI. So they may be used to getting so close. I dont think stock takes into account darkness as a line of site limiter like the mods do and that is what makes a surface attack at anything but less than very long range a no go with stock and getting a bit closer with the mods possiable. Though there is no way to be sure sometimes you can get spotted other times not. But i have gotten pretty close to what turned out to be a crack DD at least when I was underwater but he was not crack enough to avoid my mk.27 it cracked him.

05-14-09, 06:03 PM	#5
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	If you're playing to protect your crew, surface attacks are almost impossible. One way to test all your motives is have the next/previos cam on and put it on the nearest dd as you make your attack. I took a lot of time studying how they react, often switching from ship to ship. You can change speed, ect....and then the guns start turning. I even changed direction once and the second I did, his guns started turning. I did a few last night. One a fairly large convoy. The light fog helped a lot and I got within 1600 yards before a ship opened up. Everyone mentioned many good factors, but the game isn't real life in this aspect. I'll stick to submerged attacks. One good shell hit can kill all your best gunners.

05-14-09, 06:19 PM	#6
pythos Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere over there Posts: 834 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	This is an area where Sh4 and 3 fail. I am reading Donitz's book, and according to the grand admiral of the german navy surface attacks, at night were carried out at, get this, less than 200 yards. The secret? Come in with your casing or deck awash. I have done such attacks with a German boat. It has to be at night, and don't close to less than 300 meters. Needless to say this is really close, just outside the torpedo arming range. But it seems to work. I was marauding INSIDE a convoy after passing through the screen. My presence was given away when I fired my first two shots. Then a moment later all hell broke loose. Star shells from the destroyers, and merchants trying to ram me. In real like my boat would have been iluminated by the flames of the two ships I succeeded in hitting. Nice thing about running decks awash, the dive is very quick. The not so great thing about decks awash is that 1) it slows your boat down a lot, and 2) with RFB, and OM it is hell to set. For some reason the depth setting does not follow what is on the scale. In order to get the boat to run at 7 meters, I need to set 7.5. If I set it at 8 I start running on electrics. I got away from the initial point of this post, which is...Yes, surface attacks can be done at very close range, which minimizes the effect of faulty torpedos, or solutions.

05-15-09, 02:27 AM	#7
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	How dose SH4 fail at surface attacks have you not read that they can be done? And TMO and RFB are only mods they just changed how the AI works so it still is SH4. I must completey diasagree with your statement. And in WWII US subs had surface attacks that worked others failed completey. It is fully beliveable to me that some times when you dont think they will that the AI attacks you it is very murphys law just like in war things dont go according to plan. And Iam not sure I belvive the getting within 200yds that is very hard to belive at that range a blind watchman would have seen them not to mention that the sub could get damaged or destroyed if a large explosion occured.If you go inside a convoy the odds they will spot you are very high that is why I dont do it but you can get within 2000yds fire your fish and turn away never to be found by the Jap DDs.Some people who play this game have a I must sneak in super close closer than i need to be. Why do that when you can get well within torpedo range without getting so close that the ships crew could piss over the side of the ship and it hit your subs hull? If you do that might as well trade in your Gato for one of those kaitens(or how ever you spell the sucide subs)