Upcoming WW2 Sub Movie "USS Seaviper"

MetalMania · 05-05-09, 05:56 PM

Sorry, this post is probably gonna be a bit lengthy. I'll probably get slammed for this, but I liked U-571. I took it for what it was, a Hollywood WWII FICTIONAL action drama with some events (very) loosely based on things that actually happened, or could have happened. I'm not a submariner nor do I know any, so no I am no expert but I'm not exactly sure what bits of it seem to have cut people so deeply here. It wasn't a documentary nor was it supposed to be. I haven't seen it in a while but I think at the end they DO scroll some text saying that the British were the ones who recovered the Enigma along with some other factual information. Got a problem with Matthew McConaughey and Jon Bon Jovi? At least they were recognizeable names that might have brought some viewers that might otherwise have passed it up.

Whenever these movies come up people always start crying over "that's not right! That's not how it happened! Oh God, there's a WOMAN in the plot!?!?!?! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Heresy!" It's kind of the same thing when a new sim comes out, everybody jumps all over it because it doesn't model this targeting system absolutely accurately, this rivet is out of place, this plane's flight model isn't right, that ship's guns are too accurate. Some things, when they are glaringly wrong deserve to be corrected. I am not saying realism is not important, it is. But whether it's a movie or a game (even though it's a simulation it's still a game), the people who produce it need to sell it and try to make a profit. It's not cheap making high end games/ sims or movies. They need to be entertaining. Deciding to make a WWII submarine product is already limiting market appeal, so tailoring it to the nth degree to appease the ultra hard core crowd is only going to further limit its reach. Please don't misunderstand me, I would be in an uproar too if we saw Gato class subs racing around submerged at 20 kts after taking depth charge hits and firing active homing Mk-14's. However, I think with the realities of the media market we have to allow some wiggle room for people to tell their stories and give respect to the realities of what people really experienced in a context that people beyond the hard core will watch.

I think USS SeaViper sounds promising, like they are trying to "keep it real" while still making a movie that a non sub-nut could watch. The fact that they are simultaneously doing a genuine documentary - *all reality* - especially since it seems like they aren't working with a mega blockbuster budget, really deserves a round of applause. Like has been said earlier in this thread, they chose to make a film based on a subject we're all interested in here in a day where that doesn't happen very much. It's not going to be "perfect" and nail every detail, but if we crucify it for taking hopefully minor liberties the next guy just might not bother. I will see this movie when it comes out, and judge it then on its own merit of being just that - a movie that hopefully is engaging to watch with the requisite thrills and dramatic turns while maybe giving a decent glance at the atmosphere of a particular niche of the Pacific War.

I'm just finishing reading "Wahoo" and will follow it with "Clear the Bridge". I'd love to see a well done movie or HBO miniseries on Richard O'Kane. Mr Hanks, Mr Spielberg?

Oh yeah, for what it is I enjoyed Pearl Harbor too. Inaccuracies aside the flying scenes (except for the silly on the deck criss cross midair collision duel during the attack) were good and uh, Kate Beckinsale.

snakeyez · 05-05-09, 09:16 PM

Well said, MetalMania.

As I previously stated, Ralph Villani is the director and co-writer of this movie. His father P.J. Villani was a WWII submariner and served on the USS Drum for what would have been the 14th war patrol if the war hadn't ended.

His heart IS in the right place. The producer, Rob Norris, feels very strongly about the subject as well. These are good people.

Stealhead · 05-05-09, 10:40 PM

Hanks and Berg have been working on a miniseris about i belive a group of marines in the Pacific so i dont think that they will be doing anything about O'Kane soon(if they ever even plan to). Band of Brothers was pretty expensive and that was the last thing they did together and that was about 8 years or so ago now. The thing with a submarine movie is that it is very niche and of course any one who is going to make or put money into a movie is going to be concerned about the market and you are going to get a lot more market out of a movie or miniseris about either infantryman or fighter pilots hate to say they get all the glory. But at the same time you must admit that there is alot more action to be had in a movie about a group of soliders than there is a submarine. Even a very good movie like Das Boot I only watch every few years there just isnt enough mass intrest in WWII submarines that is going to attract any large well funded group into making a movie or mini-series the hayday for WWII subs in main stream media was the 50s and early 60s. There is are alot of other less well known units and such from WWII for example you think they are going to make a movie about the CBI like Marels Marauders? not likely.Myself to be honest Id find a miniseries about Marines who fought in the Island hopping much more interesting than WWII subs those Marines went through hell on earth. MetalMania is correct all movies are going to have some "hollywood" in them Das Boot does just like any other of Enemy at The Gates a pretty good movie but much of the story is very "hollywood" but it made someone who most americans never heard off a little more famous. Something dose not have to high budget to be good either anyway you cant knok it down until you see a movie.

Onkel Neal · 05-05-09, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetalMania

Sorry, this post is probably gonna be a bit lengthy. I'll probably get slammed for this, but I liked U-571. I took it for what it was, a Hollywood WWII FICTIONAL action drama with some events (very) loosely based on things that actually happened, or could have happened.

You and me, buddy. I enjoyed U-571 for what it is.

I got beat up in a bar the last time I said that but the bruises are almost gone now.

Sensekhmet · 05-06-09, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetalMania

I haven't seen it in a while but I think at the end they DO scroll some text saying that the British were the ones who recovered the Enigma along with some other factual information.

Let me quote Wikipedia here:
The Biuro Szyfrów, (Polish for "Cipher Bureau") was the interwar Polish General Staff's agency charged with both cryptography (the use of ciphers and codes) and cryptology (the study of ciphers and codes, particularly for the purpose of "breaking" them)...
...Beginning in December 1932, the Cipher Bureau broke the German Enigma machine cipher and, over the next nearly seven years before World War II, overcame the growing structural and operating complexities of the plugboard-equipped Enigma. The Enigma would be the main German cipher device during the Second World War. Five weeks before the outbreak of World War II, the Cipher Bureau revealed Poland's Enigma-decryption techniques and equipment to the French and British. Poland thereby made possible the western Allies' vitally important decryption of Nazi German secret communications (Ultra) during World War II.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biuro_Szyfr%C3%B3w
Thus, any Western Enigma movie makes people in Poland (well, at leat the ones who give a **** about their nation's history) laugh and/or shake their heads in disbelief.

MetalMania · 05-06-09, 11:28 AM

Sensekhmet, whether Wikipedia's info is correct or not I don't know (but I don't doubt that it's true) what I meant was that the end of the film says that a British task force really did recover an Enigma machine from a German U-Boat - not necessarily that they cracked the code. From what I gather the Brits were ticked that the movie suggested the Americans got the Enigma. Well, same deal - it didn't say "based on a true story", and to their credit gave the accurate information at the end. As an American, no I don't want to see history twisted so that we "always get the glory", but like I said before I'm just watching a movie. If someone wants to make a "hollywood" feature film that actually has the right nations and/or characters doing their heroic deeds and still makes for a good movie, well hey I'm all for it and so much the better. Outside of documentaries or the History Channel getting into feature film production we're going to have to take what we're offered and hope it's enjoyable and not too far fetched. Actually, forget the latter - THC is more into truck drivers and lumberjacks now than history apparently. However...... maybe a "Battle 360" season or series of episodes on the Silent Service? That could be really good.

Ducimus · 01-27-10, 11:43 PM

So whats the latest on this anyway? Did they release it yet? Considering these were uploaded two weeks ago:

I'm assuming not yet.

I know it's a massive load of hollywood manure, but considering its a PTO submarine movie (the combination of those words is incredibly rare as movie selections go), i wouldn't mind seeing it. Hell, id buy the DVD. I'll put it right next Das Boot and U-571 on DVD shelf.

Bubblehead1980 · 01-28-10, 12:12 PM

lol ducimus, i am visiting the Drum soon, will ask when I am over there.

I am holding out hope(perhaps foolishly) that Tom Hanks and company will produce a WWII PTO sub movie or series along the lines of Band of Brothers, Saving Private Ryan.With the huge budgets and talent they could put in, plus a love of history and not hollyweirding it, it would be awseome.

AVGWarhawk · 01-28-10, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

So whats the latest on this anyway? Did they release it yet? Considering these were uploaded two weeks ago:

I'm assuming not yet.

I know it's a massive load of hollywood manure, but considering its a PTO submarine movie (the combination of those words is incredibly rare as movie selections go), i wouldn't mind seeing it. Hell, id buy the DVD. I'll put it right next Das Boot and U-571 on DVD shelf.

Yes sir, does not look bad. Some embellishment but the use of the Drums interior makes it a bit more credible. I reckon it will be like the newer Pearl movie with Ben Affleck. Either way I will buy it. However I do not have U571..that is just awful.

Bubblehead1980 · 01-28-10, 05:07 PM

Everyone rips on U571.Yes I know it was not correct in many, many areas but come on, it was a decent flick.....

Armistead · 01-28-10, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Everyone rips on U571.Yes I know it was not correct in many, many areas but come on, it was a decent flick.....

I could only watch it once...it was just too silly for me. First half was OK, regardless of how poorly inaccuate, when it became a Rambo movie, lost me....

AVGWarhawk · 01-28-10, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Everyone rips on U571.Yes I know it was not correct in many, many areas but come on, it was a decent flick.....

I think it is more Matthew Mcwhatever his name. He is awful.

05-05-09, 09:16 PM	#2
snakeyez Last Man Down Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mississippi, USA Posts: 242 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Well said, MetalMania. As I previously stated, Ralph Villani is the director and co-writer of this movie. His father P.J. Villani was a WWII submariner and served on the USS Drum for what would have been the 14th war patrol if the war hadn't ended. His heart IS in the right place. The producer, Rob Norris, feels very strongly about the subject as well. These are good people. __________________ SUBMARINEMUSEUMS.ORG - These are the submarines in your neighborhood! Get involved, they need you. Doyle Blalock - the life of my WWII submarine veteran grandfather. Drum228.org - devoted to the Gato-class museum sub USS Drum (SS-228) complete with war patrol reports, historical info, and restoration progress.

05-05-09, 10:40 PM	#3
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Hanks and Berg have been working on a miniseris about i belive a group of marines in the Pacific so i dont think that they will be doing anything about O'Kane soon(if they ever even plan to). Band of Brothers was pretty expensive and that was the last thing they did together and that was about 8 years or so ago now. The thing with a submarine movie is that it is very niche and of course any one who is going to make or put money into a movie is going to be concerned about the market and you are going to get a lot more market out of a movie or miniseris about either infantryman or fighter pilots hate to say they get all the glory. But at the same time you must admit that there is alot more action to be had in a movie about a group of soliders than there is a submarine. Even a very good movie like Das Boot I only watch every few years there just isnt enough mass intrest in WWII submarines that is going to attract any large well funded group into making a movie or mini-series the hayday for WWII subs in main stream media was the 50s and early 60s. There is are alot of other less well known units and such from WWII for example you think they are going to make a movie about the CBI like Marels Marauders? not likely.Myself to be honest Id find a miniseries about Marines who fought in the Island hopping much more interesting than WWII subs those Marines went through hell on earth. MetalMania is correct all movies are going to have some "hollywood" in them Das Boot does just like any other of Enemy at The Gates a pretty good movie but much of the story is very "hollywood" but it made someone who most americans never heard off a little more famous. Something dose not have to high budget to be good either anyway you cant knok it down until you see a movie. Last edited by Stealhead; 05-05-09 at 10:51 PM.

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05-05-09, 05:56 PM	#1
MetalMania Watch Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Rhode Island, USA Posts: 23 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	Sorry, this post is probably gonna be a bit lengthy. I'll probably get slammed for this, but I liked U-571. I took it for what it was, a Hollywood WWII FICTIONAL action drama with some events (very) loosely based on things that actually happened, or could have happened. I'm not a submariner nor do I know any, so no I am no expert but I'm not exactly sure what bits of it seem to have cut people so deeply here. It wasn't a documentary nor was it supposed to be. I haven't seen it in a while but I think at the end they DO scroll some text saying that the British were the ones who recovered the Enigma along with some other factual information. Got a problem with Matthew McConaughey and Jon Bon Jovi? At least they were recognizeable names that might have brought some viewers that might otherwise have passed it up. Whenever these movies come up people always start crying over "that's not right! That's not how it happened! Oh God, there's a WOMAN in the plot!?!?!?! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Heresy!" It's kind of the same thing when a new sim comes out, everybody jumps all over it because it doesn't model this targeting system absolutely accurately, this rivet is out of place, this plane's flight model isn't right, that ship's guns are too accurate. Some things, when they are glaringly wrong deserve to be corrected. I am not saying realism is not important, it is. But whether it's a movie or a game (even though it's a simulation it's still a game), the people who produce it need to sell it and try to make a profit. It's not cheap making high end games/ sims or movies. They need to be entertaining. Deciding to make a WWII submarine product is already limiting market appeal, so tailoring it to the nth degree to appease the ultra hard core crowd is only going to further limit its reach. Please don't misunderstand me, I would be in an uproar too if we saw Gato class subs racing around submerged at 20 kts after taking depth charge hits and firing active homing Mk-14's. However, I think with the realities of the media market we have to allow some wiggle room for people to tell their stories and give respect to the realities of what people really experienced in a context that people beyond the hard core will watch. I think USS SeaViper sounds promising, like they are trying to "keep it real" while still making a movie that a non sub-nut could watch. The fact that they are simultaneously doing a genuine documentary - all reality - especially since it seems like they aren't working with a mega blockbuster budget, really deserves a round of applause. Like has been said earlier in this thread, they chose to make a film based on a subject we're all interested in here in a day where that doesn't happen very much. It's not going to be "perfect" and nail every detail, but if we crucify it for taking hopefully minor liberties the next guy just might not bother. I will see this movie when it comes out, and judge it then on its own merit of being just that - a movie that hopefully is engaging to watch with the requisite thrills and dramatic turns while maybe giving a decent glance at the atmosphere of a particular niche of the Pacific War. I'm just finishing reading "Wahoo" and will follow it with "Clear the Bridge". I'd love to see a well done movie or HBO miniseries on Richard O'Kane. Mr Hanks, Mr Spielberg? Oh yeah, for what it is I enjoyed Pearl Harbor too. Inaccuracies aside the flying scenes (except for the silly on the deck criss cross midair collision duel during the attack) were good and uh, Kate Beckinsale.

05-06-09, 11:28 AM	#6
MetalMania Watch Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Rhode Island, USA Posts: 23 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	Sensekhmet, whether Wikipedia's info is correct or not I don't know (but I don't doubt that it's true) what I meant was that the end of the film says that a British task force really did recover an Enigma machine from a German U-Boat - not necessarily that they cracked the code. From what I gather the Brits were ticked that the movie suggested the Americans got the Enigma. Well, same deal - it didn't say "based on a true story", and to their credit gave the accurate information at the end. As an American, no I don't want to see history twisted so that we "always get the glory", but like I said before I'm just watching a movie. If someone wants to make a "hollywood" feature film that actually has the right nations and/or characters doing their heroic deeds and still makes for a good movie, well hey I'm all for it and so much the better. Outside of documentaries or the History Channel getting into feature film production we're going to have to take what we're offered and hope it's enjoyable and not too far fetched. Actually, forget the latter - THC is more into truck drivers and lumberjacks now than history apparently. However...... maybe a "Battle 360" season or series of episodes on the Silent Service? That could be really good.

01-27-10, 11:43 PM	#7
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	So whats the latest on this anyway? Did they release it yet? Considering these were uploaded two weeks ago: I'm assuming not yet. I know it's a massive load of hollywood manure, but considering its a PTO submarine movie (the combination of those words is incredibly rare as movie selections go), i wouldn't mind seeing it. Hell, id buy the DVD. I'll put it right next Das Boot and U-571 on DVD shelf.

01-28-10, 12:12 PM	#8
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,121 Downloads: 605 Uploads: 44	lol ducimus, i am visiting the Drum soon, will ask when I am over there. I am holding out hope(perhaps foolishly) that Tom Hanks and company will produce a WWII PTO sub movie or series along the lines of Band of Brothers, Saving Private Ryan.With the huge budgets and talent they could put in, plus a love of history and not hollyweirding it, it would be awseome.

01-28-10, 05:07 PM	#10
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,121 Downloads: 605 Uploads: 44	Everyone rips on U571.Yes I know it was not correct in many, many areas but come on, it was a decent flick.....