Letter to president

[AngusJS]

Originally Posted by clayp

Where do you get off telling a Muslim country that the United States does not consider itself a Christian country? Have you not read the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution of the United States?

Have you ever bothered to read the Constitution? There's not one mention of god, providence, a creator...nada. The DoI does mention it, but our government isn't founded on the DoI, it's founded on the Constitution.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by AngusJS

Have you ever bothered to read the Constitution? There's not one mention of god, providence, a creator...nada. The DoI does mention it, but our government isn't founded on the DoI, it's founded on the Constitution.

Very true. Especially Article 6 of the Constitution addresses this.

Lets consult another official document. Would you agree that a document signed by the President of the United States and Ratified by the United States Senate is official? That's about as official as a document can be.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/bar1796t.asp

The Treaty of Tripoli. Ratified by the US Senate on 7 Jun 1797 and signed by President John Adams on 10 Jun 1797. Specifically let's look at Article 11 of that treaty (corrected for the spelling of the time)

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

This coming from the President (one of the Founding Fathers) and the Senate seems to make its point clear.

Just some history some may not be aware of.

[Tchocky]

Ah, I knew there was a treaty statement about this somewhere. Thanks, Platapus.

Curious. And there I thought Obama was finally a US president with a sound reality check of how the world works and that selfhailing and idealizing the US while smashing porcellaine all over the planet has finally been realized as one of the major reasons the US finds itself in such an alien situation in regards to the rest of the world today and that Obama acts accordingly. That an apology is not a sign of weakness, but of confidence, respected whereever the headlines of his actions have been read, outside the US. That it's now Iran and other countries trying to gain advantage of the situation, thus giving the US a lot of credit it lacked over the last 10 years in beeing percieved as morally superiour. And that the US finally realizes that boycotting countries like Cuba isn't exactly doing anything for the US in the future, but quite to the contrary.

But, quite obviously, some folks never bothered to haul themselves into the 21th century.

Must be the US own propaganda of beeing the best nation on earth for half a decade at least now making some people beeing such spoiled brats in regards to international politics nowadays.

[Marinesko]

Platapus beat me to the Treaty of Tripoli, DAMN! (No dishonor being upstaged by a platypus though, one of nature's greatest killers).


I found the "signature" rather funny though- "every real American". Seems like 7 million more Americans voted for Obama, and he obviously had more supporters since there we're talking about registered voters(or people that actually bothered to vote). So maybe folks like that ought to question how they became the "real Americans" somehow. And while I'm pretty skeptical about Obama, I think it should take a little more than three months to get fed up with his administration.

Bowing to the King of Saudi Arabia? Please don't tell that guy about the Bush family business. And visiting a Mosque in TURKEY?!!! HOLY CRAP!!!! WHO WOULD VISIT A MOSQUE IN A MUSLIM COUNTRY, PARTICULARLY ONE THAT IS KNOWN TO HAVE SOME RATHER IMPORTANT HISTORICAL MOSQUES?! TRAITOR!!!!!

[heartc]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

[...] has finally been realized as one of the major reasons the US finds itself in such an alien situation in regards to the rest of the world today and that Obama acts accordingly.

One of the major reasons is that all the other places, like China, Russia, the Islamist dictatorships and last but not least the EUSSR don't really appreciate the example in freedom set by the US, and never have. Too much freedom of expression and choice is not good for you, comrade. Imagine people would start ticking like the citizens of there. Plenty of bureaucrats, civil servants and dictators jobless overnight!

[SteamWake]

:rotfl:Putin=Chaves :rotfl:

[Enigma]

Ahem! Mouse.

Oh, and the thread will not be closed unless some awful language is used. Subsim, unlike every other information outlet in the world except FOX, does not have a liberal bias. Quite the opposite...

[heartc]

Originally Posted by Enigma

Ahem! Mouse.

Oh, and the thread will not be closed unless some awful language is used. Subsim, unlike every other information outlet in the world except FOX, does not have a liberal bias. Quite the opposite...

In fact the letter is so dumb it doesn't warrant the effort to close this thread I guess. Also, it's still only like 1:100000000 against the equally stupid or maybe even dumber Bush=Hitler threads over the LAST EIGHT YEARS all over "the internets". AFAIK, making everything equal is what the liberals like, so why close it yet?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by AngusJS

Have you ever bothered to read the Constitution? There's not one mention of god, providence, a creator...nada. The DoI does mention it, but our government isn't founded on the DoI, it's founded on the Constitution.

While the cultural history of Christianity certainly has had influence on America back then and today like it has had influence on the whole western civilisation as well, America indeed is no nation build on explicit principles of Christian religion, or basing on exclusively the Christian understanding of "God". Religious zealots claiming the opposite are either simply wrong when not knowing it better indeed, or are lying intentionally if they know it better for sure. The First Amendement explicitly restricts the lawmaker's options to serve or prefer the interests of any given religious institution, which includes the Christian churches and sects, obviously.

http://bmccreations.com/one_nation/nation.html

If even an atheist and anti-theist like me can live well with these american documents and not feeling challenged or opressed by them, you can feel safe about them. just the ignoration of these in later lawmaking, the distoritions added by campaigning sects and zealots - these are the religious things people like me are having problems with. What the United States were meant to be, and what it is today, and has turned into since half a century and longer ago - that are some very different things. Some changes were for the better. Some were for the worse.