[WIP] Cold War Mod

tomagabriel · 03-10-09, 02:52 AM

@ the vertical launch topic.

What Keltos01 said+I have not tried to launch vertical but my guess is that an unmodified torpedo would just pop out of the water (depending on its speed and launch depth and etc.) and then it would fall back in the water (with a splash) and go on its merry way. Just a guess, not tested (I will do it). Anyway, missile doors are definitely doable (I am not sure how many torpedo tubes are achievable in order to convert some of them to missile tubes - Keltos01 I think did some work in this direction - and the Ohio would need some 28 tubes! - Russian and French subs are less demanding).

Next is some day-dreaming...

If you do not intend anyway to actually launch a real missile, I was thinking this: maybe one can make a very sophisticated launch effect and associate it to the launch procedure (thus you would see the missile going up - flames 'n stuff, but it would all be just an effect, including the missile you see going up), associate a blank 3d model to the torpedo so that you don't see the real one going horizontally through the water and also a very high explosive warhead.

The result would be that you launch, you see the stuff going up, etc, then after some time you would see a huge explosion somewhere caused by the invisible torpedo (again huge explosion effect needed). Hopefully the proximity fuse of the torpedo can be set to detonate at ~100m or more from target (otherwise you would launch, miss the target and never know it).

Anyway, the really bad news is that torpedo guidance + very high speeds do not go along well. I could not make yet a guided torpedo that travels at 500nm to hit the target. It always turns around just before hitting. I am still trying, but I can not make any prediction. Some things might be hard-coded. What I would like to change is the maneuverability of the torpedo (how much it goes left / right while homing). From the sim file I can only change the initial left/right turn towards the target, but after that, when the torpedo detects something, it can turn around with no problem or make all sort of turns. That should be changed. It should only be allowed to do very slow turns and also very small ones. Also its sensor range should be greatly increased. All these might not be achievable. Therefore at first I thought that I will disable the missiles I've made. However I realised that the dummy missiles I've made are great for port attacks if I use a dumb torpedo/unguided (when ships are stationary). I did some tests and it looks nice. So probably this week I will release a new version of the Ohio and it will have these stuff in it. One thing is certain. It is fast (has a small white smoke trail to easily keep an eye on it and because it flies low you won't be bothered-I hope-that the hit occurs a couple of meters below the actual missile model).

Bottom line
This is deffinitely a WIP.

___________________ <---- this was the bottom line

keltos01 · 03-10-09, 04:48 AM

tomagabriel@ the vertical launch topic.

What Keltos01 said+I have not tried to launch vertical but my guess is that an unmodified torpedo would just pop out of the water (depending on its speed and launch depth and etc.) and then it would fall back in the water (with a splash)

and go on its merry way. Just a guess, not tested (I will do it).
good
Anyway, missile doors are definitely doable
like the torpedo doors were, the only thing is to place them on top of the sub.

(I am not sure how many torpedo tubes are achievable in order to convert some of them to missile tubes - Keltos01 I think did some work in this direction -
If you mod on the German side, we managed to get 8 tubes working, on the US side there are 10.

I managed 11 for the Class T submarine but then the TBT would cause CTD.. I since learned that we had to add the tubes in another file with a new hexa address - Peabody did it for us - so maybe that's the problem with the 11th tube, if it is then there is no max number of tubes you could set up.

and the Ohio would need some 28 tubes! - Russian and French subs are less demanding).

Next is some day-dreaming...

If you do not intend anyway to actually launch a real missile, I was thinking this: maybe one can make a very sophisticated launch effect and associate it to the launch procedure
You could make me a kaiten launch procedure ?

(thus you would see the missile going up - flames 'n stuff, but it would all be just an effect, including the missile you see going up), associate a blank 3d model to the torpedo so that you don't see the real one going horizontally through the water and also a very high explosive warhead.
doable
The result would be that you launch, you see the stuff going up, etc, then after some time you would see a huge explosion somewhere caused by the invisible torpedo (again huge explosion effect needed). Hopefully the proximity fuse of the torpedo can be set to detonate at ~100m or more from target (otherwise you would launch, miss the target and never know it).

Anyway, the really bad news is that torpedo guidance + very high speeds do not go along well. I could not make yet a guided torpedo that travels at 500nm to hit the target. It always turns around just before hitting. I am still trying, but I can not make any prediction. Some things might be hard-coded. What I would like to change is the maneuverability of the torpedo (how much it goes left / right while homing). From the sim file I can only change the initial left/right turn towards the target, but after that, when the torpedo detects something, it can turn around with no problem or make all sort of turns. That should be changed. It should only be allowed to do very slow turns and also very small ones. Also its sensor range should be greatly increased. All these might not be achievable. Therefore at first I thought that I will disable the missiles I've made. However I realised that the dummy missiles I've made are great for port attacks if I use a dumb torpedo/unguided (when ships are stationary). I did some tests and it looks nice.
but you can't have obstacles in the way can you ? since it's still basically a torpedo ?
So probably this week I will release a new version of the Ohio and it will have these stuff in it. One thing is certain. It is fast (has a small white smoke trail to easily keep an eye on it and because it flies low you won't be bothered-I hope-that the hit occurs a couple of meters below the actual missile model).

Bottom line
This is deffinitely a WIP.
but a good one, and nothing's easy in modding SH4, good job !

keltos

___________________ <---- this was the bottom line

thyro · 03-10-09, 05:36 AM

That was just an idea... if would be possible its launch process would also allow nuke subs to be fit with Ballistics and soon missions would appear. For example a mission where a subs would need to reach certain coordinates get into launch depth to launch the missile(s) to complete the mission.

I really doubt that SH4 game mechanics would allow to manouver a missile (torp) launched vertically... so back to basics just the launch as visual effect would be enough (the make believe that exists a target and it will be hit by a ballistic missile)

if launching a missile (torp) vertically without any guidance but just to go up till "limbo" (high sky limit on SH4) and disapear would be possible then would be like breaking new ground on SH4... after that just add cosmetics (FX effects and sound at it)

tomagabriel · 03-10-09, 07:00 AM

@ Keltos01
"but you can't have obstacles in the way can you ? since it's still basically a torpedo ?"

indeed

Werewolf · 03-10-09, 03:43 PM

@Keltos:

Sorry for the long reply time, I am moving right now so everything is a mess, just had the computer up and running today. I will send you the file as soon as I get in order here, thanks

Werewolf · 03-11-09, 12:23 PM

I had a look in the mission editor today, actually it's possible to make missions where the objective is to destroy a land unit, only the choice of targets is very little, but it's possible.

Then a thought crossed my mind regarding making missiles. So much ideas have come up to make torpedoes into missiles, but what about shells? I know this might seem crazy, but a shell travels in a ballistic trajectory and so does a ballistic nuclear land strike missile. Would it be possible to convert the surplus deck gun into a ballistic missile launcher that launches shells with a very long range and large destructive power/Hit points for example? The ammo could be limited to the number of tubes available for the individual class, the reload times could be shortened down to simulate a ripple launch and maybe a model could be made....is there a 3D model for shells by the way? In this way an almost vertical launch would be possible and there was no need to worry about the number of tubes available, the problem with the lack of guidance is not there either since a ballistic missile has no guidance......personally I would find it a thrill to do such calculations manually, but maybe I'm a bit of a geek haha

Anyway...does this idea sound completely idiotic to those of you with more knowledge about this game?

Sledgehammer427 · 03-11-09, 03:19 PM

...something we at the SWSMT are working on...

its definately possible

View Poll Results: What time period would you like the Cold War Mod to encompass?
Early Cold War: 1947 to the early 1960s	148	14.18%
Mid Cold War: 1960s to 1980s	195	18.68%
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I want the whole thing! 1947 to 1991	554	53.07%
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03-10-09, 04:48 AM	#2
keltos01 Silent Hunter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Milan Italy Posts: 4,999 Downloads: 114 Uploads: 18	ssss tomagabriel@ the vertical launch topic. What Keltos01 said+I have not tried to launch vertical but my guess is that an unmodified torpedo would just pop out of the water (depending on its speed and launch depth and etc.) and then it would fall back in the water (with a splash) and go on its merry way. Just a guess, not tested (I will do it). good Anyway, missile doors are definitely doable like the torpedo doors were, the only thing is to place them on top of the sub. (I am not sure how many torpedo tubes are achievable in order to convert some of them to missile tubes - Keltos01 I think did some work in this direction - If you mod on the German side, we managed to get 8 tubes working, on the US side there are 10. I managed 11 for the Class T submarine but then the TBT would cause CTD.. I since learned that we had to add the tubes in another file with a new hexa address - Peabody did it for us - so maybe that's the problem with the 11th tube, if it is then there is no max number of tubes you could set up. and the Ohio would need some 28 tubes! - Russian and French subs are less demanding). Next is some day-dreaming... If you do not intend anyway to actually launch a real missile, I was thinking this: maybe one can make a very sophisticated launch effect and associate it to the launch procedure You could make me a kaiten launch procedure ? (thus you would see the missile going up - flames 'n stuff, but it would all be just an effect, including the missile you see going up), associate a blank 3d model to the torpedo so that you don't see the real one going horizontally through the water and also a very high explosive warhead. doable The result would be that you launch, you see the stuff going up, etc, then after some time you would see a huge explosion somewhere caused by the invisible torpedo (again huge explosion effect needed). Hopefully the proximity fuse of the torpedo can be set to detonate at ~100m or more from target (otherwise you would launch, miss the target and never know it). Anyway, the really bad news is that torpedo guidance + very high speeds do not go along well. I could not make yet a guided torpedo that travels at 500nm to hit the target. It always turns around just before hitting. I am still trying, but I can not make any prediction. Some things might be hard-coded. What I would like to change is the maneuverability of the torpedo (how much it goes left / right while homing). From the sim file I can only change the initial left/right turn towards the target, but after that, when the torpedo detects something, it can turn around with no problem or make all sort of turns. That should be changed. It should only be allowed to do very slow turns and also very small ones. Also its sensor range should be greatly increased. All these might not be achievable. Therefore at first I thought that I will disable the missiles I've made. However I realised that the dummy missiles I've made are great for port attacks if I use a dumb torpedo/unguided (when ships are stationary). I did some tests and it looks nice. but you can't have obstacles in the way can you ? since it's still basically a torpedo ? So probably this week I will release a new version of the Ohio and it will have these stuff in it. One thing is certain. It is fast (has a small white smoke trail to easily keep an eye on it and because it flies low you won't be bothered-I hope-that the hit occurs a couple of meters below the actual missile model). Bottom line This is deffinitely a WIP. but a good one, and nothing's easy in modding SH4, good job ! keltos ___________________ <---- this was the bottom line __________________ "Honorable Builder of Sinking Ships"

03-10-09, 05:36 AM	#3
thyro Commander Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: on a rock surrounded by water, that people call it UK Posts: 473 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	That was just an idea... if would be possible its launch process would also allow nuke subs to be fit with Ballistics and soon missions would appear. For example a mission where a subs would need to reach certain coordinates get into launch depth to launch the missile(s) to complete the mission. I really doubt that SH4 game mechanics would allow to manouver a missile (torp) launched vertically... so back to basics just the launch as visual effect would be enough (the make believe that exists a target and it will be hit by a ballistic missile) if launching a missile (torp) vertically without any guidance but just to go up till "limbo" (high sky limit on SH4) and disapear would be possible then would be like breaking new ground on SH4... after that just add cosmetics (FX effects and sound at it) __________________ "The good news is that you’re never, ever more than 6 miles from land. The bad news is, the land is straight down!" Last edited by thyro; 03-10-09 at 09:20 AM.

03-11-09, 03:19 PM	#7
Sledgehammer427 PacWagon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Drinking coffee and staring at trees in Massachusetts Posts: 2,908 Downloads: 287 Uploads: 0	...something we at the SWSMT are working on... its definately possible __________________ Cold Waters Voice Crew - Fire Control Officer Cmdr O. Myers - C/O USS Nautilus (SS-168) 114,000 tons sunk - 4 Spec Ops completed V-boat Nutcase - Need supplies? Japanese garrison on a small island in the way? Just give us a call! D4C!

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03-10-09, 02:52 AM	#1
tomagabriel Machinist's Mate Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 122 Downloads: 110 Uploads: 3	@ the vertical launch topic. What Keltos01 said+I have not tried to launch vertical but my guess is that an unmodified torpedo would just pop out of the water (depending on its speed and launch depth and etc.) and then it would fall back in the water (with a splash) and go on its merry way. Just a guess, not tested (I will do it). Anyway, missile doors are definitely doable (I am not sure how many torpedo tubes are achievable in order to convert some of them to missile tubes - Keltos01 I think did some work in this direction - and the Ohio would need some 28 tubes! - Russian and French subs are less demanding). Next is some day-dreaming... If you do not intend anyway to actually launch a real missile, I was thinking this: maybe one can make a very sophisticated launch effect and associate it to the launch procedure (thus you would see the missile going up - flames 'n stuff, but it would all be just an effect, including the missile you see going up), associate a blank 3d model to the torpedo so that you don't see the real one going horizontally through the water and also a very high explosive warhead. The result would be that you launch, you see the stuff going up, etc, then after some time you would see a huge explosion somewhere caused by the invisible torpedo (again huge explosion effect needed). Hopefully the proximity fuse of the torpedo can be set to detonate at ~100m or more from target (otherwise you would launch, miss the target and never know it). Anyway, the really bad news is that torpedo guidance + very high speeds do not go along well. I could not make yet a guided torpedo that travels at 500nm to hit the target. It always turns around just before hitting. I am still trying, but I can not make any prediction. Some things might be hard-coded. What I would like to change is the maneuverability of the torpedo (how much it goes left / right while homing). From the sim file I can only change the initial left/right turn towards the target, but after that, when the torpedo detects something, it can turn around with no problem or make all sort of turns. That should be changed. It should only be allowed to do very slow turns and also very small ones. Also its sensor range should be greatly increased. All these might not be achievable. Therefore at first I thought that I will disable the missiles I've made. However I realised that the dummy missiles I've made are great for port attacks if I use a dumb torpedo/unguided (when ships are stationary). I did some tests and it looks nice. So probably this week I will release a new version of the Ohio and it will have these stuff in it. One thing is certain. It is fast (has a small white smoke trail to easily keep an eye on it and because it flies low you won't be bothered-I hope-that the hit occurs a couple of meters below the actual missile model). Bottom line This is deffinitely a WIP. ___________________ <---- this was the bottom line

03-10-09, 07:00 AM	#4
tomagabriel Machinist's Mate Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 122 Downloads: 110 Uploads: 3	@ Keltos01 "but you can't have obstacles in the way can you ? since it's still basically a torpedo ?" indeed

03-10-09, 03:43 PM	#5
Werewolf Sonar Guy Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Europe Posts: 394 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	@Keltos: Sorry for the long reply time, I am moving right now so everything is a mess, just had the computer up and running today. I will send you the file as soon as I get in order here, thanks

03-11-09, 12:23 PM	#6
Werewolf Sonar Guy Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Europe Posts: 394 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	I had a look in the mission editor today, actually it's possible to make missions where the objective is to destroy a land unit, only the choice of targets is very little, but it's possible. Then a thought crossed my mind regarding making missiles. So much ideas have come up to make torpedoes into missiles, but what about shells? I know this might seem crazy, but a shell travels in a ballistic trajectory and so does a ballistic nuclear land strike missile. Would it be possible to convert the surplus deck gun into a ballistic missile launcher that launches shells with a very long range and large destructive power/Hit points for example? The ammo could be limited to the number of tubes available for the individual class, the reload times could be shortened down to simulate a ripple launch and maybe a model could be made....is there a 3D model for shells by the way? In this way an almost vertical launch would be possible and there was no need to worry about the number of tubes available, the problem with the lack of guidance is not there either since a ballistic missile has no guidance......personally I would find it a thrill to do such calculations manually, but maybe I'm a bit of a geek haha Anyway...does this idea sound completely idiotic to those of you with more knowledge about this game?