The President's Iraq plan....

[Max2147]

Originally Posted by August

In our two successful attempts at nation building Germany and Japan, what does the forum think might have happened if the Allies had pulled their troops out of those countries say by 1947?

If we had pulled out of those countries by 1947, we would have only been there for two years. That would be akin to pulling out of Iraq by 2005.

As it is, it looks like we'll be pulling out of Iraq a little over 7 years after we entered. The occupation of Japan also lasted 7 years.

The occupation of Germany might be a better comparison, since, like Iraq, the end of the occupation is debatable. Officially, the US occupation of Iraq ended when Bremer left in 2004, a little over a year after it started. The official occupation of Germany lasted 4 years until the GDR and the FRG were declared in 1949.

However, Iraq has arguably not been fully sovereign despite the official handover. If you argue that the US pullout will give Iraq full sovereignty, then full sovereignty for Iraq should come in 2010, over 7 years after Saddam's statue fell. To compare, the GDR and FRG were given full sovereignty in 1955, 10 years after WWII.

What does this say about the US presence in Iraq? Not sure. I'm just throwing some facts out there.

[Skybird]

Iraq does not compare neither to Germany, nor to Japan.

Germany, after all, had a population founding ont he same cultural origin and heritage, making Germans familiar in mentality. Iraq is that - not.

Japan was totally defeated, crushed, under undisputed control and at the mercy of America. Iraq was that - not.

Both Japan and Germany received massive, monumental economic aids to rebuild them, especially the Marshall plan in Germany. Iraq got that - not.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Iraq does not compare neither to Germany, nor to Japan.

Germany, after all, had a population founding ont he same cultural origin and heritage, making Germans familiar in mentality. Iraq is that - not.

Japan was totally defeated, crushed, under undisputed control and at the mercy of America. Iraq was that - not.

Both Japan and Germany received massive, monumental economic aids to rebuild them, especially the Marshall plan in Germany. Iraq got that - not.

Why should Iraq get that?

They have IMMENSE wealth in natural resources that, if used to benefit the populace, would be sufficient. Japan didn't have that (such is part of the cause of the war). Neither did Germany.

[baggygreen]

I got no doubt that there is going to be training conducted by the troops.

I've also got no doubt that the troops will be staying there to help send a clear message to Iraq's friendly neighbours to the east...

[August]

Originally Posted by baggygreen

...friendly neighbours to the east...

Similar to the situation in Germany until 1989...

Could someone clear this up ?
What are the new terms for the SOFA which would allow forthe extended presence and have the Iranians ...oops Iraqis ....signed up for it beyond the current agreemant ?

[Max2147]

The previous SOFA gave the end of 2011 as the final pull-out date, which is consistent with what Obama has proposed.

If push comes to shove over Iran, I think the SOFA will be abandoned.