A US political discussion....

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by August

No foolin'! He just keeps digging the hole deeper and deeper.

Indeed.

There's something to be said for people who let stubborness trump reason...

[XabbaRus]

I have a couple of JCBs if you need help...

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

I have a couple of JCBs if you need help...

I had to Google JCB to figure out what the hell you were talking about...

[XabbaRus]

One of the few British things still going....

[CaptainHaplo]

While some here seem to find my blunt views, bluntly stated as "dangerous" - I stated this at the beginning - this is intended to create some discussion. So far - 2 people other than myself have put forth options regarding the war on terror. While I disagreed with one, and discussed my reasoning, the other I admitted was a wise PIECE of the puzzle, and should be pursued - even today under the current administration. *Should have been in place from the beginning to be honest.*

The rest seem to want to ridicule or try and negate ideas - without proposing answers themselves. To date, it has been intimated that I am egotistical and condescending - yet how am I supposed to refine policy views without discussion. After all - were I to be POTUS, its still my job to not only help educate and lead, but also to listen. So far - other than a few individuals, it seems everyone else wants to simply be negative. I personally can easily take insinuations, after all - if I do run for POTUS I am going to take much harsher ones that anyone on this board can dish out.

However, it seems to show the attitude of the US voter today, that the only ones who speak approach everything with a negative view, and want only for someone to come up with the "perfect answer" that they like that will solve everything. Instead of taking the opportunity to become involved in constructive discussion of ideas, instead the responses go from merely *Thats a stupid answer* to *I do give input and ideas - just not uhm... here*.....

Look at how the current president got elected. He said little of substance, avoided issues, made promises that any sane person could see were not logically possible, and basically made himself out to seem like he has all those perfect answers so no one has to get off their duff and do anything, just trust him to make it all better. And that is what the majority of voters in this country did. Now - in 4 years, when the federal deficit has nearly doubled from 10 Trillion to almost 20 Trillion, those same voters whose level of involvement was putting out campaign signs will be sitting around like some here - grousing about how bad ideas are and why doesn't anyone have any good ones. When there is still no peace in the Middle East, when there is an increased threat of terrorists acts here because no firm action was taken to stop it, they still will be waiting on their "perfect answer" and "perfect candidate" to come along and make it all better.

Sure my policy regarding the war on terror is "outside the box". Where exactly has inside the box thinking gotten us? I said in my initial posts we must learn from our history. For three presidents we have tried "moderate" responses to terror. Has the threat been eliminated. We have spent a decade at least combatting this threat. From blowing up an "aspirin factory" for the attack on the Cole (boy that really hurt the terrorists didn't it?) to removing them from government in Afghanistan, the level of force has escalated, but still remained very limited. Now, 10+ years later, the sources of power behind terror - the sponsors, still are doing their own thing. The lead terrorists themselves are somehow untouchable, while they continue to take the hopeless and downtrodden, strap them with bombs and promise them everlasting glory if they just go blow themselves up and take some heathens with them.

The statement has been made that this is a war that cannot be won. Well -if you can't ever win a war, your doomed to either go down fighting it anyway, or being forced to surrender. Because in war there is always a winner and a loser. The comment that we cannot win it- means we are forced in some way to lose it. That is a position I cannot ever agree with. I love my country too much to throw up my hands and give her up like that. That attitude is the definition of defeatism.

We have tried "measured" responses. We have tried "moderate" responses. *Note I do not see the Iraq war as initially a part of the war on terror - it is however a conflict that has BECOME part of the war on terror. I don't think anyone can say they think the current President is going to be harder on the terrorists than his predecessors (though we will see). So after 14 years of fighting - can anyone say that all the strategies that have been used won the war? Doubtful.

Think about it - 14 years of war. 14 years of death and destruction, with no end in sight. How many dead will it be by then, between the combatants and innocents? How much infrastructure across the world will be destroyed. How much fear will people still be in of terror attacks?

Some here say that the strategy would unite the muslim world against us. Ok - after 10 years of fighting - all you hear of by the pundits in the media is that our presence anywhere in the middle east is making recruits flock to the terrorists. Our mere support of Israel does it even if every soldier were to leave today. No matter what we do it seems, these people will find those willing to commit these acts of terror for the promise of glory in the afterlife. Well - maybe it isn't politically correct to say it - but lets shake the foundations of that belief. Lets make those poor saps who are taught hate from the time they start 'school" see that an attack on OUR WAY OF LIFE is going to result in an attack on THEIR WAY OF LIFE.

Thats what so many people don't get - Terrorism is out to destroy our way of life. They seek to disrupt our society and force us to change the foundations of our way of life. Look at how Sharia law is being forced upon certain areas of Europe - and by those wonderful "MODERATE" muslims. If your fool enough to think this is just about our foreign policy, your blind beyond my help.

This IS a religious war. Its a war in which the followers of Islam - in all its "moderate" AND "extremist" factions, are out to change the world and how the rest of us live. Its not just the extremists that act to undermine the freedoms the rest of civilization enjoys. The moderates just don't use terror tactics. They don't strap bombs on people or set up IED's on the road. Instead they use our system of religious freedom to blair out arabic calls to prayer from the city square every few hours,violating the rights of non-muslims to be free from religion. And yes - that is right here in the US. ***** See Hamtramck, MI***** There are other examples across this country that are similiar.

Look, I believe in the constitutional right of freedom of religion. In fact - I think the framers would have been wise to also note the right of freedom FROM religion (on an individual basis) should a person choose it. However, that freedom - among many others we have here in the US - is under attack - by a religion whose followers are demonstrating, both at home (moderates) and abroad (extremists) that they are not willing to practice their religious beliefs while respecting ours. Just as they do not respect the rest of the way of life we lead.

So am I willing to shake the foundations of a world religion that has now become a manifest threat to our freedoms and way of life. Again it comes down to the question of war - them or us. Again - I choose us. So the answer is yes. I would.

I look at this with a sad heart, much like I expect leaders in wars past have done when tough decisions had to be made. Scream about the humanitarian cost of bombing a major city that is recognized by Islam as holy. Go ahead. But before you do, weigh that against the loss of life that has occured over a decade of war, with another 4 to go, and still no end in sight. Weigh it against death, destruction, terror and fear - leading ultimately to a change in our lives that will result in a theocratic despotism to all of our people, with all the killing and horror that goes along with it. If your willing to stand on "high moral ground" thinking it will save you - go ahead. I am fighting to make sure there is some high moral ground somewhere in the world in the future. Hard to stand on what doesn't exist - and without a harse, unbending will to remove the threat of Islam taking over this world - via terror and not, there will come a day when "high moral ground" only exists by the words of some islamic leader that you will have to answer to.

Regardless of whether or not I run for Potus, I can promise this - I will not stand silent while the foundations of MY country are torn down to be replaced by religious dogma - Islamic or otherwise. I swore many years ago to protect this country from "enemies both foreign and domestic" - and for any who have said that same oath, I will remind you - there was no time limit on the oath itself. I served my time in both green and brown suits - but my dedication to uphold the pillars of this great country will end when I release my last breath.

The war cannot be won? Bullcrap. But you can't win the war if your not willing to hurt the enemy. And you can't hurt the enemy unless you can truly see him for what he is. Politically incorrect? Absolutely. In case you haven't noticed - the country needs a large dose of that.

In closing - before anyone starts hollering that I am "anti-islamic" - yes - I am - but only to the point that they are "anti-American". When they figure out they can worship whatever they want, as they want - but they are not going to tell you or me or anyone else that WE have to abide by islamic law and theological beliefs, all will be well. If that makes me "intolerant" - well it makes them the same. I simply am that way only as far as it is needed to protect my nation and our way of life. Harsh huh? At the least - it is an "out of the box" stand.