US fleet boats - best frontline sub of ww2?

tater · 01-26-09, 12:58 PM

German torpedoes were excellent, don't get me wrong (though the USN and KM were both put to shame by the IJN, hands-down).

I think that the warheads were probably pretty comparable, frankly. I think that the 292kg of torpex was at the very least about the same as 300kg hexanite, and quite possibly more powerful.

I think any argument that states the strength of one vs the other as being definitive is flat out wrong (in either direction). I don't think it is at all clear. I have seen folks argue that the G7e should be MORE powerful, and I looked into the sinkings as a reality check and was actually surprised to find that the m14 was more effective (when they actually exploded, lol) as they were. (measured by the % of attacks with only 1 hit on a given size target that ended up sinking. 1-hit sinkings for all 7,000 ton ships (I have the stats for every single attack on said size in a spreadsheet for the whole war) were something like 69% as I recall for the USN fish, and around half that for german attacks on Liberty Ships in 1944—and the Liberty was a POS in terms of construction, they were quite fragile.

The mk 18, OTOH, is likely weaker than the G7e it copied. I don't have breakdowns on the fish used for the late-war USN attacks I checked, so I'm certain a % were actually with the weaker mk18 (which lowers the stats vs the german fish, actually).

So it is fair to say the 2 navies had VERY similar fish in terms of warhead strength.

Caveat: some numbers list heavier warheads (some lighter, too) for the G7 fish. If there was a sub-model with a significantly larger warhead than 300kg, clearly the strength balance would shift. Navweaps says some sources have a 430kg number which would clearly be more powerful than 292kg of torpex by a ways.

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01-26-09, 12:58 PM	#11
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	German torpedoes were excellent, don't get me wrong (though the USN and KM were both put to shame by the IJN, hands-down). I think that the warheads were probably pretty comparable, frankly. I think that the 292kg of torpex was at the very least about the same as 300kg hexanite, and quite possibly more powerful. I think any argument that states the strength of one vs the other as being definitive is flat out wrong (in either direction). I don't think it is at all clear. I have seen folks argue that the G7e should be MORE powerful, and I looked into the sinkings as a reality check and was actually surprised to find that the m14 was more effective (when they actually exploded, lol) as they were. (measured by the % of attacks with only 1 hit on a given size target that ended up sinking. 1-hit sinkings for all 7,000 ton ships (I have the stats for every single attack on said size in a spreadsheet for the whole war) were something like 69% as I recall for the USN fish, and around half that for german attacks on Liberty Ships in 1944—and the Liberty was a POS in terms of construction, they were quite fragile. The mk 18, OTOH, is likely weaker than the G7e it copied. I don't have breakdowns on the fish used for the late-war USN attacks I checked, so I'm certain a % were actually with the weaker mk18 (which lowers the stats vs the german fish, actually). So it is fair to say the 2 navies had VERY similar fish in terms of warhead strength. Caveat: some numbers list heavier warheads (some lighter, too) for the G7 fish. If there was a sub-model with a significantly larger warhead than 300kg, clearly the strength balance would shift. Navweaps says some sources have a 430kg number which would clearly be more powerful than 292kg of torpex by a ways.