Gas...no gas... gas... no gas

[GoldenRivet]

Oil/fuel is to the present day as Nuclear weapons were to the cold war.

its just one of those things that one nation or group of nations can hold over the head of another nation or group of nations.

The time for finding an energy source besides oil has long since passed us by

[Diopos]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Oil/fuel is to the present day as Nuclear weapons were to the cold war.

Nope. You pay to get oil/fuel. When they nuke you, it's free of charge!

[asanovic7]

Skybird..

I have to say something.. :rotfl:

Americans were playing with oil, filling their reserves while making sheiks rich.
Now Americans are in a crisis and therefore lowered the price of barrel. For what reasons, I don't know. Maybe to help their economy, maybe to keep its population happy, maybe to hurt the russians by making oil again the primary way of heating..
Maybe they jumpstarted that financial crisis themeselves. I AM SPEAKING ABOUT GOVERNMENT! NOT THE PEOPLE!

Now, Russians to counteract that play with gas, while using Ukraininians(PLEASE, don't think Ukraine fights with Russians :rotfl to up the prices of gas while making eu beg for it. Russia IMO is like a big oil/gas firm these days..
Like I said before, eu is nothing more than a toy in the hands of russians and americans.. And what about other countries?

It is ping pong.
Last year we had big oil prices, now we have gas problems.. Every year a crisis.. Combined with financial(how about a credit?) we can expect insults, threats and whatever, like a big war..

The one thing you can count on, is that americans or russians don't feel that way, but that is natural. If I am ok, what do I care if I crap into my neighbours yard, let him come tell me if he can, but he is a cripple, I shot him in the head.. :rotfl: I am sorry, this is american forum, but it seems to me they don't know why are americans "not liked" in many parts of the world.. They think other people from around the world are just jealous.. :rotfl:No, other people hate your government..
I am sorry, I am just honest..

Like for instance, why does anyone feel safer having Israel running around killing people(every year one neighbour) with 200 nuclear bombs and in the same time, stopping Iran from having their own? Now, can someone answer me that? What is the difference? So that we have 5 countries petrified with fear, giving birth to tens of thousands people thinking only about killing some foreign idiot..
Hate can only bring hate.. This world today is filled with hate.. We sit in our chairs, write all this silly s..t on this advanced technology, f..k around with silly words, while right now in some part of the world, mother kisses her 15 year old son proud he is going to fight against some other people for what he prepared his whole life and knowing(that is the worst part) he will probably die the first second he tries to shoot..

Very nice..
That is the new world we are living today..

Now, skybird..
You can tell me I indulge my ego, you can tell me I am dumb and you can comment my way of writting a post and whatever you want to satisfy your hurt German ego("eu is a toy in russian and american hands"), but I would like that you skip all that(I appreaciate that and know that is true) and tell me if I said something stupid and your opinion on the situation(global, local). I really love to read your posts, it seems to me you know alot about it.. WITHOUT IRONY!

Cheers

[Skybird]

Well, without irony indeed, I do not have much more to say than what I already said.

The EU accepted for various reasons to find itself in a position of weakness (which is the translation of "dependance"). The Ukraine provokes Russia, Russia tries to discipline the Ukraine, but the Ukraine provokes more. Gazprom has debts of over 36 billion in the West and cannot afford to waste it's trade item: gas, for below 200 dollars per unit, while the market price is in the range of 400+ and needs to be payed by european nations as well. The Kreml uses gas in its constant conflict with the Ukraine, which goes beyond gas. Kreml and Gazprom are two separate actors with different interests, but they are coordinating their efforts against the Ukaine, the kreml has interests in the field of state fiances and global strategic influence, Gazprom the the business field and regarding financial profits and paying off it'S debts. The Ukraine is in a poor economic situation, and wants to blackmail europe to accept it's membership to protect against the big demon, Russia. It also does not want to adress the ICF or the WB over ledning money, for it wants to get its needed candies for free and without the usual obligations these international institutions dictatde to those depending on their credits.

And like in Georgia, I am convinced that the americans also masisvely encourage the Ukraine to provoke Russia, for two reasons: first to lecture Europe about their dependance from Russian gas and make them giving up their policies allowing that for environmental reasons, and support for the global warming faction, and second to increase American influence aginst Russia and stir the pot so that in the conflict the Ukraine gets pushed into the EU and NATO, means: into the american sphere of influence, and at the cost of Russia. The US are an invisible player in this conflict, but they are the fourth player on the field nevertheless, and they play it very tough. Tjhe bill is payed by southeuropeans, the EU, the Ukraine, and of course Russia. the political damage for the Ukraine is the biggest, followed by the hurt EU that is witnessing the ashes of it's naive energy policy. Beside financial damage to Gazprom not earning incomes, the damage for Russia is limited and can be lived with. It even may fuel the Russian intention for a Baltic sea pipeline to bypass unloved ukraine, delete Ukraine's transit fees and by that increase pressure on them, and make it more tempting for the EU to accept a state of even greater depedance from russian gas. For all these three reasons, America is strictly against this northern pipeline, and wants to keep their Ukrainean card in the game. If the US does not want anything in the European part of it'S global strategy, then it's a fall in the EU's and NATO's interest into the Ukraine, it would be a major setback for the US' own ambitions to keep Russia under pressure.

[bookworm_020]

If you want natural gas, Australia has plenty! You just have to ship it and it's all yours! (just pay for it first!)

[asanovic7]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Well, without irony indeed, I do not have much more to say than what I already said.

The EU accepted for various reasons to find itself in a position of weakness (which is the translation of "dependance"). The Ukraine provokes Russia, Russia tries to discipline the Ukraine, but the Ukraine provokes more. Gazprom has debts of over 36 billion in the West and cannot afford to waste it's trade item: gas, for below 200 dollars per unit, while the market price is in the range of 400+ and needs to be payed by european nations as well. The Kreml uses gas in its constant conflict with the Ukraine, which goes beyond gas. Kreml and Gazprom are two separate actors with different interests, but they are coordinating their efforts against the Ukaine, the kreml has interests in the field of state fiances and global strategic influence, Gazprom the the business field and regarding financial profits and paying off it'S debts. The Ukraine is in a poor economic situation, and wants to blackmail europe to accept it's membership to protect against the big demon, Russia. It also does not want to adress the ICF or the WB over ledning money, for it wants to get its needed candies for free and without the usual obligations these international institutions dictatde to those depending on their credits.

And like in Georgia, I am convinced that the americans also masisvely encourage the Ukraine to provoke Russia, for two reasons: first to lecture Europe about their dependance from Russian gas and make them giving up their policies allowing that for environmental reasons, and support for the global warming faction, and second to increase American influence aginst Russia and stir the pot so that in the conflict the Ukraine gets pushed into the EU and NATO, means: into the american sphere of influence, and at the cost of Russia. The US are an invisible player in this conflict, but they are the fourth player on the field nevertheless, and they play it very tough. Tjhe bill is payed by southeuropeans, the EU, the Ukraine, and of course Russia. the political damage for the Ukraine is the biggest, followed by the hurt EU that is witnessing the ashes of it's naive energy policy. Beside financial damage to Gazprom not earning incomes, the damage for Russia is limited and can be lived with. It even may fuel the Russian intention for a Baltic sea pipeline to bypass unloved ukraine, delete Ukraine's transit fees and by that increase pressure on them, and make it more tempting for the EU to accept a state of even greater depedance from russian gas. For all these three reasons, America is strictly against this northern pipeline, and wants to keep their Ukrainean card in the game. If the US does not want anything in the European part of it'S global strategy, then it's a fall in the EU's and NATO's interest into the Ukraine, it would be a major setback for the US' own ambitions to keep Russia under pressure.

Then we agree in almost every aspect, , but you are more into the theme and your explanation is far broader than mine..

In other words..

We are gased beyond recognition in years to come..
:rotfl:

I hope this explanation by skybird can show fellow americans to how much extent United States governement(democrats, liberals, white, gay, black, Marsian etc.) do s..t around the world, and they do it followed closely by their beloved comrade.

When China steps in(or it is already), it will be even worse.

Cheers, Skybird!

[Catfish]

Hello,
i must admit i first thoght it was all made up by Putin. Now it seems the Ukrayina does indeed actively hinders the deliverance. Do they want to blackmail the EU ? I mean usually you get an answer to almost all questions in asking yourself "who profits from this".
Seems i must deliver an excuse to Mr. Putin .. :hmm: But then maybe he does not really need it

Greetings,
Catfish

[asanovic7]

After doing some thinking.. :rotfl:

US and Russians in the end have common interests in the world.. They just make a fuss about something somewhere, use their little pawns on the board and in the end split the profit.
Ping pong..

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Seems i must deliver an excuse to Mr. Putin .. :hmm:

You certainly must not, he is too tough a chess player for that. that the major share of responsibility for this row lies with the Ukraine, does not make Putinistan harmless. but as long as I can see him acting on the basis of intentions and legitimate self-interest I can forsee and understand, I rate him as an opponent you need to keep an eye on - but an opponent that is very unlikely to start something irrational and totally unreasonable. He is clever, but so far predictable. That's why I can live with a Russia dominated by Putin. It would be much worse with a Duma falling apart in trench warfare, and the government in the hands of the oligarchs and nationalists. I prefer Putin's Russia anytime to Yeltsin's Russia, it is far more stable, and predictable. Whether it is democratic in western understanding or not, is of relatively low importance, and the majority of Russians seem to be very happy with strong leaders: Stalin sees a renaissance of popularity, pushed by the Kreml, and Putin is extremely popular - especially with the young ones, but also with many of the old ones. Russia has any right there is not to be like america or europe, and who said that they must prefer to be a society as crazy and loose as the Europeans or Americans, especially the EU giving an example of cultural self-deconstruction? Ranging from Europe to the Far East, i do not believe that Russia could be run like a Western style democracy anyway. If it is stable and predictable and reliable, that kind of Russia is good enough for me. I do not tell it it must be like us. Would we like to be told by russia that we should be like them? Could you imagine wgat reactions you would get from Americans iof you tell them they have to be like you tell them to be? Let'S accept differences. Sometimes differences are mutually harmful, but here they must not necessarily be so. Europe is closer to Russia than America, so for the Europeans of us the american perspective on Russia could be seen as almost irrelevant. We should be careful that we do not pay the bill for America's policy towards Russia (thinking of the constant American provocations regarding NATO moving East, Georgia, and the Ukraine).

Originally Posted by asanovic7

Then we agree in almost every aspect

Well, agreement could happen. Do not overrate my complaint to you from some days ago. I stick to it, but we have not crossed blades so far, and I have generally a neutral stance towards you. Under such conditions I judge events and situations on a one-by-one basis. Cheers to you also.

[August]

Originally Posted by asanovic7

skybird can show fellow americans

Skybird is not an American by any means.

[FIREWALL]

@ asanovic7

I think the best part and makes the most sense of your essay was " I don't know "

And your so right and I totaly agree with you.

You don't have a CLUE WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by August

Skybird is not an American by any means.

Really? If I didn't already know he was German it would be easy to mistake him for a Democrat