Spirit & Opportunity @ + Years

[Zachstar]

Going to mars has little to do with economics as it is dealing with population growth.

7 billion people will become 10 in a blink of an eye. 10 will become 20 in another and shortly afterwards there will be chaos because even with advanced technology you simply cant get enough food to sustain such without crazed things like screwing with plant genes.

Colonizing Mars is important because almost every part of it can be refined to grow and support.

The chain goes like this.

Ship, Shelther, Robot factory, Refineries/mines, lots of factories, dome buildings, Dome cities, Dome states, etc...

Obviously humans will not build these domes. Doing anything in a spacesuit (even a skintight one) is much harder than on earth so this will be a robot thing.

The impotant thing is you don't have to worry about "Ruining the environment" on mars because you wont waste anything and also whatever envrionment will be in domes not on the outside.

Also important is that you have all the materials you need on Mars. Steel? No problem! Glass? Easy! Rocket fuel? Are you kidding? dig a few feet and you got it. Silica? Plenty!

[August]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Going to mars has little to do with economics as it is dealing with population growth.

7 billion people will become 10 in a blink of an eye. 10 will become 20 in another and shortly afterwards there will be chaos because even with advanced technology you simply cant get enough food to sustain such without crazed things like screwing with plant genes.

Colonizing Mars is important because almost every part of it can be refined to grow and support.

The chain goes like this.

Ship, Shelther, Robot factory, Refineries/mines, lots of factories, dome buildings, Dome cities, Dome states, etc...

Obviously humans will not build these domes. Doing anything in a spacesuit (even a skintight one) is much harder than on earth so this will be a robot thing.

The impotant thing is you don't have to worry about "Ruining the environment" on mars because you wont waste anything and also whatever envrionment will be in domes not on the outside.

Also important is that you have all the materials you need on Mars. Steel? No problem! Glass? Easy! Rocket fuel? Are you kidding? dig a few feet and you got it. Silica? Plenty!

Do you have any idea what it would cost to move billions of people from the Earth to Mars? Don't get me wrong, i wholeheartedly support the colonization of space but I don't believe it can ever be an answer to overpopulation.

[Zachstar]

It is the only answer besides the elephant in the room...

As for cost. Trillions.. And that is assuming they develop a super high ISP and thrust engine so you can carry 777 sized human cargo into space.

It is not going to be cheap. And nobody is going to develop the stuff to do it for free. That is why there has to be incentive. Like agreements to give mineral rights to many asteroids containing precious metals.

[August]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

It is the only answer besides the elephant in the room...

I'd say trillions would be more like 10's of trillions at least and it'd still take way too long to avoid overpopulation critical mass.

Now I can think of a much simpler and easier solution, get the human race to reign it's pregnancy rate. That can't be any more difficult than what you're proposing.

[Zachstar]

And how do we do it?

China style? What if a mother wants to have 5 kids? Extra taxes?

[August]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

And how do we do it?

China style? What if a mother wants to have 5 kids? Extra taxes?

Well negative population growth, not including the "old school" methods like war, genocide, starvation and disease, etc, does seem to happen on it's own upon occasion so i'd expect the solution might be found in that direction.

But to answer your question, yeah I suppose it's only fair that if someone really wants a big family and we aren't as a society prepared to forcibly prevent them from having it, then they ought to have to pay in some way for the extra worlds resources they will consume don't you think?

In any case there is no way that solar system colonization can be a solution to unchecked population growth. Even with a worldwide 100% effort, highly unlikely i'm sure you'd agree, I believe human population would have already reached critical mass, and crashed the old school way, long before the project could begin to operate.

[Zachstar]

Ok say we make some kind of "law" saying that those who say have more than 4 children lose all assistance and have to pay more taxes.

What will happen? The networks will go crazy over "Child Deaths from starvation" And "Garbage Can" incidents and what will happen. The opposition party will run a "No tax on many child families" or whatever plan that will surely mean the reinstating of welfare and all that back to the way it was. Nobody will care about how it will mean loss later.

There is NO such thing as population reduction in most democracies the ones with supposed population decline are mainly due to local conditions or other things that do not reflect on the rest of the world.

Maybe I am wrong to believe in the saving grace from space but what else can I do? Population reaching critical mass will mean one thing. Loss

Loss of freedom

Loss of life from constant war

Loss of the environment as environmentalism dies and everyone does whatever they can to get resources

I am not going to think about those things.

Hell have you stopped to think about how terrible going critical can be? 15-20 or so BILLION going nuts for food and resources?