John P. Cromwell attack technique on order

[Soundman]

Edit..Crap, When I posted this, I didn't realize there were two more pages of this thread I had not read yet!

There have been pros and cons for this method stated here. One of the pros I did not hear mentioned is that with this technique, the range you fire from would be increased (over the O'Kane method) and therefore, the ability to be detected by the enemy will be slightly decreased or possibly delayed.

The "O'Kane" method is by far my favorite and as long as the following criteria are met, it's damn near impossible to miss: (1) You have accurately calculated (not estimated) speed (2) The target holds that speed and course.......

As for the above criteria, I find that if I achieve both, I can hit exactly where I aim from very long ranges, but it is very important to nail the speed to within a 1/4 knot. Some will say that's getting picky, but if you are firing from 3500 yds, that type of accuracy in speed is needed and will make the difference between a hit or miss.

Now as for number 2 of the criteria, I have many a time been in perfect position on a DD from about 3500 yards using the "O'kane" setup and painstakingly calculated the speed, only to be detected about the time I'm ready to fire. Therefore, I'm very interested to try this new tecnique on those DD's to see if it aids this circumstance by the ability to fire sooner and a little further away. I'm awaiting the formula and/or the video!

[Soundman]

Originally Posted by blackbob

Hi all i have just started with manual targeting with the excellent Dick O Kane method and i've had some fair success so far and i am keen to try this new one but one thing i've a problem with is getting accurate speed estimates my nav map dividers measure in tenths of nautical miles rather than yards and this throws me a bit is this a setting or a mod that i need to get yards ?

Yes Blackbob, your guess is right. I don't remember for sure, but I remember the measurements being in knots only up until a certain patch (I beleive 1.4), so patch up to fix that issue.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by Soundman

Yes Blackbob, your guess is right. I don't remember for sure, but I remember the measurements being in knots only up until a certain patch (I beleive 1.4), so patch up to fix that issue.

That could be it, or it could be your scale. Not sure, but if you are not zoomed in close, then your scales may be in miles. Certainly if you measure over 10,000 yards, the readout on the ruler or divider will switch to miles, but you'd have to be measuring over 5 miles for that to be the case. The increments will then be in 0.1 of a mile.

but it is very important to nail the speed to within a 1/4 knot.

How do you input speeds of less than 1 knot? The readout is only graduated in whole knots unless there is a mod I'm missing.

Urge

[ClearDark]

I have just finished a several hours session practicing O'Kane's and Cromwell's techniques from watching Rick's movies. And i have to say they work like a charm every single time. Vector analysis is really fun doing during the game, i also noticed that certain values never change during these calculations however i also double check by drawing an analysis on the same course of the target. Just abit further away of its non-existence course (since it will be dead by then hopefully )

On this attack, i launched four fish, all of them hit DEAD ON where the wire was when launched. Nothing beats that.

Speed calcs:


Attack plan:



I have run into several misses when a veteran crew aboard destroyers noticed the fishes tail but in 99% i've had a successful hit in an unprecedent precision.

Thanks alot for sharing this information, these 2 techniques are now by far my most favorite for easy tonnage and without going through the hazardous PK and stadimeter readings.

[Soundman]

Originally Posted by Soundman

Edit..Crap, When I posted this, I didn't realize there were two more pages of this thread I had not read yet!

There have been pros and cons for this method stated here. One of the pros I did not hear mentioned is that with this technique, the range you fire from would be increased (over the O'Kane method) and therefore, the ability to be detected by the enemy will be slightly decreased or possibly delayed.

The "O'Kane" method is by far my favorite and as long as the following criteria are met, it's damn near impossible to miss: (1) You have accurately calculated (not estimated) speed (2) The target holds that speed and course.......

As for the above criteria, I find that if I achieve both, I can hit exactly where I aim from very long ranges, but it is very important to nail the speed to within a 1/4 knot. Some will say that's getting picky, but if you are firing from 3500 yds, that type of accuracy in speed is needed and will make the difference between a hit or miss.

Now as for number 2 of the criteria, I have many a time been in perfect position on a DD from about 3500 yards using the "O'kane" setup and painstakingly calculated the speed, only to be detected about the time I'm ready to fire. Therefore, I'm very interested to try this new tecnique on those DD's to see if it aids this circumstance by the ability to fire sooner and a little further away. I'm awaiting the formula and/or the video!

Update: I tried this method last night with great success. Just as I was saying above, I ran into a task force of two DDs. I was able to take out the lead and due to the increased closure rate, by the time he saw the fish it was too late. Also, due to the capability to fire from a longer range, I managed to remain undetected. Of course, the second one turned my direction and I managed to put him under with a down the throat shot. It worked just as I had hoped.

This leaves me to ponder:hmm: , and therefore, a question....Will this method work with any angle calculated other than 45 degrees ? It seems it should, and I'd like to try from say, 25 degrees. In my scenario above, this (may) would enable the ability to fire on the second target shortly after the first. That would avoid the sometimes risky "down the throat" shot. I'll try it later and report my findings.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by Soundman

Will this method work with any angle calculated other than 45 degrees ? It seems it should, and I'd like to try from say, 25 degrees. In my scenario above, this (may) would enable the ability to fire on the second target shortly after the first. That would avoid the sometimes risky "down the throat" shot. I'll try it later and report my findings.

Yes it will work, as long as your gyro angles are still zero.

[I'm goin' down]

What the hell am I doing up at 3:45 a.m. reading about the Cromwell attack? I think it is time to see a shrink...after I watch the video tutorial first thing in the morning after I get up.

[I'm goin' down]

I set up a Cromwell attack. The ship was approaching from my port side -- the target's starboard side. I set up at a 45 degree angle, and checked it with the bearing tool to make sure my zero bearing was at a 45 degree to the target's track. I checked the speed of the target over a 3 minute interval. I set the scope at 10 degrees and turned off the PK. I sent the range to the TDC. As the target passed the cross-hairs, I fired 4 shots along its length. The torpedoes were set for 20 feet, within the target's depth. I set the AOB at 35 degrees starboard. All of the shots missed. I must have had the speed wrong? Any other ideas? I was set up for so long that I consumed three of RR's Mai Tai's, but I will save victory slice of cheescake for a later date.

Did you watch your fish with the external camera? They might have passed under the ship if you used contact influence (the torpedos had a defect where they ran deeper than they were set for). I generically set my torpedos for 13-14 ft for just about every merchant since I rarely identify a ship( I like to shoot from far away) and I find that I have a low % of torps that pass under.

Urge

[Munchausen]

You didn't mention torpedo speed. The whole idea behind the Cromwell attack depends upon the ratio between target speed and torpedo speed.

[I'm goin' down]

I did not watch the fish on the external camera. I was fixing a Mai Tai in preparation for the party that we expected to have after the merchant went down. I do not think the fish passed under the keel because they were set 5 feet above its draft.

[Munchausen]

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

I do not think the fish passed under the keel because they were set 5 feet above its draft.

Prior to the official fix, rule of thumb decreed that a torpedo generally ran ten to eleven feet deeper than its setting.

Besides depth, you need to set a torpedo's speed. What setting did you use (fast?) ... and what speed did you use (46 knots?) for calculating your attack geometry?

[I'm goin' down]

Is the lead angle of 11 degrees in RR's tutorial dependent on the speed of the approaching target? Is the same if the target is doing 10 kts. versus 12 kts? If so, I guess you vector it like RR did in his tutorial? Manhausen, I am not sure what geometry you are talking about, plus I am no math wizard.

I am not sure what geometry you are talking about

Have you read all 3 pages of this thread? Especially nisgeis and munchausen

Urge