Minefields and Rub1.44 (Cont'd)

Stiebler · 10-26-05, 06:48 AM

This is a continuation of the thread entitled "RUb1.44 and Minefields" which began in the main forum and is now closed to new entries. By the end, it had become an analysis of Crash-to-Desktop when patrolling off Hull (which never happens in the original SH3 with 1.4 patch). It seems more appropriate to continue in this forum. New viewers should consult original entries in the main forum.

I've been carrying out more patrols with RUb 1.44 in July 1940 on a line 100 km out from Hartlepool and Hull, ie, outside minefield range. What I have discovered is that the CTDs are *much* more common if GB minefield#8 has its density set to 100, than when it is set to 1. In the latter case, it is very hard to provoke a CTD, and all the examples I encountered involved preliminary sighting of a warship first. But one can sail along the 100 km line at a time setting of 512 for weeks of game time before anything happens. And then it cannot be reproduced reliably.

When the minefield density is set to 100, CTDs become far more frequent and finally even *reproducible*! I have a saved position when the crash will occur within one minute of loading it and following the pre-plotted path. But this time the crash does *not* involve preliminary sighting of a warship (although a warship can be heard moving away if I dive to 25 metres). Moreover the crash can be reproduced whether the U-boat is on the surface or submerged.

And, most conclusively of all, the crash does *not* occur if the saved position is reloaded with the minefield#8 density reset to 1.

Obviously there must be interference caused in some way by the minefields to the running of the game. The greater the minefield density, the greater the interference.
1. This might be due to a program bug, because it cannot handle minefields properly (I mentioned in an earlier post that the original SH3 *never* sets the radius of a minefield, whereas RUb 1.44 is full of minefields with radius set to varying values).
2. The problem might be due to Allied ships hitting their own minefields, which the program doesn't know how to handle.

How can Allied ships hit their own minefields?
RUb 1.44 has made the hulls of some ships deeper, and in gale force storms the sea moves by up to 3 metres. This might just be enough to bring the ships randomly into contact with minefields laid at 15 metres depth - and would explain the greater number of CTDs in the region of minefield #8 when the density is set to 100 - in fact, that might well mean several simultaneous hits on one ship, which might also cause instability.

How come so many CTDs appear to be irreproducible?
Maybe the merchant ships randomly spawned around the U-boat are also blundering into minefields, but especially high-density minefield#8.

How come my latest CTD *is* reproducible?
Some warship or other is running through the minefield and keeps triggering the mines when at high density, but not when at low density. I'd guess that the original programmers implemented minefields by a random number generator - when in the field, if the random number multiplied by the density factor exceeds a trigger value, bang! Most of the time, at low density, the warship gets away with it. Rarely, it doesn't.

Why do the crashes occur under different conditions (but especially when using UZO)?
Underlying program bug, probably causing a variable overflow which somehow affects the view. It did occur to me that the periodic crashes with the UZO might be due to something else entirely, such as a defective skin for the ship being sighted. I believe too that I encounter more warships when minefield#8 is set at high density than at low density, and again it might be that a minefield bug is somehow spawning a rogue and unstable destroyer.

What if my theorizing is right?
There will always be a few scattered random crashes when the U-boat is near any substantial minefield. The lower the mine density, the less likely they are to occur.

What if I'm wrong?
SEP (Someone Else's Problem - I can't think of anything else).

Solutions?
1. As a practical measure, lower all minefield densities at once, and especially that of minefield#8! This is done most safely in the Mission Editor.
2. It might be a good idea to reduce hull depths of all ships to original values.
3. Perhaps check the modified skins/shapes of all modified warships.

Other items:
Beery has pointed out that some of the waypoints of minefields don't seem to be connected, and that some of the minefields have duplicate names (including the infamous #8). These may also need attention.

Stiebler.

10-26-05, 06:48 AM	#1
Stiebler Fuel Supplier Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,237 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 4	Minefields and Rub1.44 (Cont'd) This is a continuation of the thread entitled "RUb1.44 and Minefields" which began in the main forum and is now closed to new entries. By the end, it had become an analysis of Crash-to-Desktop when patrolling off Hull (which never happens in the original SH3 with 1.4 patch). It seems more appropriate to continue in this forum. New viewers should consult original entries in the main forum. I've been carrying out more patrols with RUb 1.44 in July 1940 on a line 100 km out from Hartlepool and Hull, ie, outside minefield range. What I have discovered is that the CTDs are much more common if GB minefield#8 has its density set to 100, than when it is set to 1. In the latter case, it is very hard to provoke a CTD, and all the examples I encountered involved preliminary sighting of a warship first. But one can sail along the 100 km line at a time setting of 512 for weeks of game time before anything happens. And then it cannot be reproduced reliably. When the minefield density is set to 100, CTDs become far more frequent and finally even reproducible! I have a saved position when the crash will occur within one minute of loading it and following the pre-plotted path. But this time the crash does not involve preliminary sighting of a warship (although a warship can be heard moving away if I dive to 25 metres). Moreover the crash can be reproduced whether the U-boat is on the surface or submerged. And, most conclusively of all, the crash does not occur if the saved position is reloaded with the minefield#8 density reset to 1. Obviously there must be interference caused in some way by the minefields to the running of the game. The greater the minefield density, the greater the interference. 1. This might be due to a program bug, because it cannot handle minefields properly (I mentioned in an earlier post that the original SH3 never sets the radius of a minefield, whereas RUb 1.44 is full of minefields with radius set to varying values). 2. The problem might be due to Allied ships hitting their own minefields, which the program doesn't know how to handle. How can Allied ships hit their own minefields? RUb 1.44 has made the hulls of some ships deeper, and in gale force storms the sea moves by up to 3 metres. This might just be enough to bring the ships randomly into contact with minefields laid at 15 metres depth - and would explain the greater number of CTDs in the region of minefield #8 when the density is set to 100 - in fact, that might well mean several simultaneous hits on one ship, which might also cause instability. How come so many CTDs appear to be irreproducible? Maybe the merchant ships randomly spawned around the U-boat are also blundering into minefields, but especially high-density minefield#8. How come my latest CTD is reproducible? Some warship or other is running through the minefield and keeps triggering the mines when at high density, but not when at low density. I'd guess that the original programmers implemented minefields by a random number generator - when in the field, if the random number multiplied by the density factor exceeds a trigger value, bang! Most of the time, at low density, the warship gets away with it. Rarely, it doesn't. Why do the crashes occur under different conditions (but especially when using UZO)? Underlying program bug, probably causing a variable overflow which somehow affects the view. It did occur to me that the periodic crashes with the UZO might be due to something else entirely, such as a defective skin for the ship being sighted. I believe too that I encounter more warships when minefield#8 is set at high density than at low density, and again it might be that a minefield bug is somehow spawning a rogue and unstable destroyer. What if my theorizing is right? There will always be a few scattered random crashes when the U-boat is near any substantial minefield. The lower the mine density, the less likely they are to occur. What if I'm wrong? SEP (Someone Else's Problem - I can't think of anything else). Solutions? 1. As a practical measure, lower all minefield densities at once, and especially that of minefield#8! This is done most safely in the Mission Editor. 2. It might be a good idea to reduce hull depths of all ships to original values. 3. Perhaps check the modified skins/shapes of all modified warships. Other items: Beery has pointed out that some of the waypoints of minefields don't seem to be connected, and that some of the minefields have duplicate names (including the infamous #8). These may also need attention. Stiebler.