Legality of torture

Skybird · 05-08-10, 02:37 PM

Waterboarding IS torture. It is a procedure that not only mentally raises an involuntary fear of death by drowning, but also provokes physical reaction by the body being set into a condition of agony, and additonal painful, convulsive spasms throughout the body that during the procedure is tied down.

If agony and the ultimate physical experience of drowning, which is beyond conscious control by the subject'S mind, is not torture, then NOTHING is torture.

Whether or not noticable marks of physical damage are left on or in the body, is not the criterion of torture. You can electroshock people without leaving visible marks. You can torture without breaking bones, cutting flesh and blood flowing.

This discussion about laws and paragraphs going on here is alienating, and in a way: frightening. Because it demonstrates exactly the same bureaucratic mindset you have seen in Nazi bureaucrats who with perfidious pedantism kept note and written record of the medical experiments, the orders flowing down the command lines, the crimes and decisions and processes in the killing industry - and often thought that because everything was in order with the written records and evertyhing was taking place in accordance with some written rules and orders of duty, the horrifying results therefor were "okay", too. Many of them defended themselves with saying they were ordered to do this, and that the law was like that.

They were unable or unwilling or both to look beyond the law, and question the law itself.

Sometimes some people say they are wondering how the Third Reich, and the fanatism of Nazi vasalls, could happen. You must not necessarily look into history to examine that. Looking at events after that, or even the present people today, can provide answers, too.

Also, the Stanford Prison Experiment and the Milgram Experiment are not reserved for German people with Nazi mindsets, too.

Hold the discussion for a while. Take a breath. Get back in contact with reality - and realise what it actually is that you talk about and that you think you do justice to when describing it with bureaucratic formalities only.

05-08-10, 02:37 PM	#17
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,644 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Waterboarding IS torture. It is a procedure that not only mentally raises an involuntary fear of death by drowning, but also provokes physical reaction by the body being set into a condition of agony, and additonal painful, convulsive spasms throughout the body that during the procedure is tied down. If agony and the ultimate physical experience of drowning, which is beyond conscious control by the subject'S mind, is not torture, then NOTHING is torture. Whether or not noticable marks of physical damage are left on or in the body, is not the criterion of torture. You can electroshock people without leaving visible marks. You can torture without breaking bones, cutting flesh and blood flowing. This discussion about laws and paragraphs going on here is alienating, and in a way: frightening. Because it demonstrates exactly the same bureaucratic mindset you have seen in Nazi bureaucrats who with perfidious pedantism kept note and written record of the medical experiments, the orders flowing down the command lines, the crimes and decisions and processes in the killing industry - and often thought that because everything was in order with the written records and evertyhing was taking place in accordance with some written rules and orders of duty, the horrifying results therefor were "okay", too. Many of them defended themselves with saying they were ordered to do this, and that the law was like that. They were unable or unwilling or both to look beyond the law, and question the law itself. Sometimes some people say they are wondering how the Third Reich, and the fanatism of Nazi vasalls, could happen. You must not necessarily look into history to examine that. Looking at events after that, or even the present people today, can provide answers, too. Also, the Stanford Prison Experiment and the Milgram Experiment are not reserved for German people with Nazi mindsets, too. Hold the discussion for a while. Take a breath. Get back in contact with reality - and realise what it actually is that you talk about and that you think you do justice to when describing it with bureaucratic formalities only. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.