Now this is deeply disturbing.. the pawns move

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

quote]
True but I think Russia's whole system is geared towards war. You know, Russians are not big on flower arrangements so things look shabby but when push comes to shove, they will be ready.

that is true in so far as the military is integrated and accepted in civil society to a bigger degree than it is the case in western european nations. But russia is not different to america! In America, too, after the vietnam protests are forgotten since 1991 at the latest, the military again enjoys extremely high (by european standards) acceptance levels again. And different to Russia, American industrial production depends to much greater degrees on wartime production and the assemby of weapons, vehicles and weapon platforms and military goods, so I think you do not really have an argument there. Also I want to remind you that the Russian defense budget is more than 20 times smaller than the american one. Russia is much bigger than germany, nad has a much longer border to defend and faces the Chinese as neighbours and in somewehat disputed terrain - but there defense budget compares to that of Germany (with Germany falling behind France and Britain.)

[XabbaRus]

What is the big deal?

This is a case of double standards.

Why can't Russia court South American countries and if it wished to arrange basing deals. So what if it is with Chavez.

It does seem to be a case of NATO and the US can park themselves all the way up to the Russian border, contravening a deal whereby NATO agreed not to do suich a thing, but as soon as Russia courts countries close to the USA and sells them weapons it is worrying.

OK so Russia isn't the western style democracy and yes has made a lot of noise about sticking Iskander missiles in Kaliningrad, which there already are older TBMs there anyway so its not like Russia doesn't have missiles there.

Also from a UK point of view I am sceptical about the whole need for a missile defense system in europe anyway, aimed at Iran or anyone else. Also I don't feel NATO has really taken Russian concerns into account.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

Also I don't feel NATO has really taken Russian concerns into account.

they never had and still don'T. don't get me wrong, by this i do not say that Russia does not demand to be seen as more than it is. It is a regional leading power, but not that global superpower as which it wants to be greeted.

The russians take their mouth a bit too full. And US-NATO speaks with a split tongue. If I were a third power and wpuld need to deal with them, I would hold my weapon at their direction and tell them both: "Keep away from me, no matter what". But as realist, my advise would be to Russia: demand a little bit less and realise your real status instead of blowing it up, and to NATO: be more honest with the Russians in words and deeds, give them the opera ball they want, and stop provoking them: neither NATO nor America is a model for the world that must be pushed everywhere.

[bookworm_020]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

You need money to run any military. They may certainly have a lot of toys, but how long can they keep gas in the tanks, bullets in the rifles and food in the stomachs? All of that costs money.

With the oil price going down, it's going to leave alot of countries that relied on the high prices short of foriegn currency. Russia, Iran and so on have got use to large inflow of money to send on domestic issues.

Russia will find it hard to increase funding for the military if the price stays this low or keeps going down (maybe one of the reasons why they are pushing for more money from India for the carrier?).

Iran will have problems domesticly as money starts to run short to keep alot of the programs going that keep people happy and employed. The fact that 2/3 of the population is below 30 means that there is a ticking time bomb waiting to go off if not handled well.