Alfa Tau 3.1

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Raptor_341

Well, it looks like i will be using RA now. Castout, any word on final release date? SubBB, looking forward to those missions. Anyone up for MP this weekend?

I've been told a couple of days. One of RA modder GrayOwl is in contact with me on regular basis. Just be patient. You don't want a buggy game do you.
As for MP i would very much like that however I'm on the beta version and using the Hyperacoustic sound mod which made a database incompatibility with even fellow beta RA player......I guess I'll wait for the upcoming RA release and then make 2 databases available with JSGME. One for hyperacoustic sound mod and the other just RA without Hyperacoustic sound mod. I've brought the hyperaocutic sound mod to light to GrayOwl but I don't know whether it will be incorporated into the next RA package.


As for Periscope depth and Raptor who want to try the beta version you could try asking Subb for help . My upload speed is slow (88kbps on average) and the files are more than 70Mb compressed. if Subb is not available PM me and I'll see what I can do.

And to wet your appetite of the upcoming release of updated RA here are two screenies of the new look of the Gepard sonar stations both BB and NB I received from GrayOwl about a week ago. I hope this makes it into the upcoming release version,

Gepard new broadband station



Gepard new narrowband station

[Molon Labe]

RAPLOC on an Akula? That's a bit unexpected...

[suBB]

Originally Posted by Castout

I've been told a couple of days. One of RA modder GrayOwl is in contact with me on regular basis. Just be patient. You don't want a buggy game do you.
As for MP i would very much like that however I'm on the beta version and using the Hyperacoustic sound mod which made a database incompatibility with even fellow beta RA player......I guess I'll wait for the upcoming RA release and then make 2 databases available with JSGME. One for hyperacoustic sound mod and the other just RA without Hyperacoustic sound mod. I've brought the light of hyperaocutic sound mod to GrayOwl but I don't know whether it will be incorporated into the next RA package.


As for Periscope depth who wants to try the beta version you could try asking subb for help . My upload speed is slow (88kbps on average) and the files are more than 70Mb compressed. if Subb is not available PM me and I'll see what I can do.

And to wet your appetite of the upcoming release of updated RA here are two screenies of the new look of the Gepard sonar stations both BB and NB I received from GrayOwl about a week ago. I hope this makes it into the upcoming release version,

Gepard new broadband station



Gepard new narrowband station

WAA on an akula2!!! that is veeerrry dangerous

WOW

and lemme guess, will the older model akulas / subs prior to the akula2 still use the analog sonar gear??

man, this mod gets better by the minute!!!

[FERdeBOER]

A couple of days?

I've been waiting 3 years for something like this, I suppose I can wait two more days... :hmm:


No, I can't, I want it now! :rotfl:

[Sea Demon]

Anybody know if these mods respect the Licensing agreements set forth by Sonalysts?

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

Anybody know if these mods respect the Licensing agreements set forth by Sonalysts?

I would think that's a question for ML or someone else that has/almost has a JD.

Did SCXII with the SCU utility respect Sonalysts licensing agreement for that matter?

PD

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

I would think that's a question for ML or someone else that has/almost has a JD.

Did SCXII with the SCU utility respect Sonalysts licensing agreement for that matter?

PD

Adding new playable platforms violates the EULA, plain and simple. (It's not surprising that the mods are coming from Italy and Russia, where IP protections are lagging the rest of the Core.)

SCU was a grey area, because back then SCS wasn't all that clear about what parts of the software they considered proprietary. Those lines were clearly drawn before the SCX team could make a PCU for DW.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

I would think that's a question for ML or someone else that has/almost has a JD.

Did SCXII with the SCU utility respect Sonalysts licensing agreement for that matter?

PD

Well, that's why I asked. Hopefully someone with knowledge on the issue will respond and give us the low-down. These licensing agreements should be respected. And Sonalysts intellectual property in their software should also be respected. As far as SCX/SCU, I think the case was that the mod was released without Sonalysts approval. The people who did that mod didn't know they were doing something Sonalysts would have a problem with. Sonalysts did address this and said that adding new playables was verboten, but turned a blind eye to SCU as they were developing the newer DW. SCX is totally legal as the files changed were database, doctine, and adding new non-playable units. Sonalysts has never had any problems with an SCX project for their games, and from what I remember they did encourage those modding efforts. They did also say that they are the only ones with the exclusive rights to add new playables to their games. Some have said that as long as DLL's and such are not touched, things could be done. But I'm not sure if that's skirting the issue. That's why I want to know if this stuff here is OK. Hate to be the wet blanket, but I'm not so sure myself.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

That's why I want to know if this stuff here is OK. Hate to be the wet blanket, but I'm not so sure myself.

There's nothing wrong with respecting a company's property. And it certainly seems to be outright illegal according to ML, who I don't doubt is correct.

But I have to admit, as someone who bought the original Battlefront release I would absolutely love for DW to be picked up by outlaw programmers like Falcon 4 was. A for profit company that has any sense will never again be able to make a serious modern naval combat simulation without charging upwards of $100. Which I would gladly pay, but I seriously doubt that's happening anytime soon.

PD

[goldorak]

This mod even if it is illegal does no harm to the game.
It may even revive the game at retail, new players will see this and decide to buy the game. As far as SCS is concerned, I think and I'm not the only one that more than 3 years have passed and we have not heard from them a single time saying they were considering doing an add-on.
For all intents and purposes DW is a dead end for them.
Why should we suffer for their mistakes ? (Its a selfish view but at this point I don't care). The moment they release an official add-on I'll be there with the €'s but until then I'll gladly play this mod.

[Molon Labe]

Commercial products like DW are a very small part of SCS's business, but the NavalSimEngine is part of both the commercial product and their defense products. The problem is that government agencies or defense contractors might start using "free" PCUs or add-ons to model new platforms instead of going back to SCS for those services.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Commercial products like DW are a very small part of SCS's business, but the NavalSimEngine is part of both the commercial product and their defense products. The problem is that government agencies or defense contractors might start using "free" PCUs or add-ons to model new platforms instead of going back to SCS for those services.

The mod doesn't modify as far as we know the navalsimengine.
I'm I correct ? It only modifies the database (and us government sureley uses a more precise databse anyways) and the interface files.
You know what happens to any corporations that use unlicensed software ?
Ask the BSA (Business Software Alliance). You pay hell (in any civilised country, in the usa and in italy for instance).
So no I don't think that a US firm would use this mod in any official capacity, because then they would be sued brought in court and make to pay very dearly their mistake. For example the BSA goes against those that use non licensed Fonts, and you think they would let somebody use a cracked/moded/non licensed version of a government contrated software ? Be realistic ML.
SCS doesn't want modding not because of the use of said mod in official circles, it doesn't modding because it doesn't want modding pure and simple. There is simply no justification. The only one would be if the released an official add-on but we all know the truth, its never going to happen. Almost 4 years have passed and nothing happened. Those 2 mods were developped not because people wanted to go over SCS back (hell the mods waited 3 years !!! to come to light) but because SCS considers not cost efficient to do an official add-on for us poor simmers. So I ask again, ethics aside where is the harm being done to DW ?

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by goldorak

The mod doesn't modify as far as we know the navalsimengine.
I'm I correct ? It only modifies the database (and us government sureley uses a more precise databse anyways) and the interface files.

I don't know if the NSE itself is modded. I do know that the .dll's and interfaces that the NSE utilizes were declared verbotten, and that new playables can't be added without altering those.

You know what happens to any corporations that use unlicensed software ?
Ask the BSA (Business Software Alliance). You pay hell (in any civilised country, in the usa and in italy for instance).
So no I don't think that a US firm would use this mod in any official capacity, because then they would be sued brought in court and make to pay very dearly their mistake.

US firms aren't the problem.

For example the BSA goes against those that use non licensed Fonts, and you think they would let somebody use a cracked/moded/non licensed version of a government contrated software ? Be realistic ML.
SCS doesn't want modding not because of the use of said mod in official circles, it doesn't modding because it doesn't want modding pure and simple. There is simply no justification.

Of course. How silly of me. SCS just wanted to hurt their commercial product to spite us. They hate us so much they were willing to make less money. That makes sense!

The only one would be if the released an official add-on but we all know the truth, its never going to happen. Almost 4 years have passed and nothing happened. Those 2 mods were developped not because people wanted to go over SCS back (hell the mods waited 3 years !!! to come to light) but because SCS considers not cost efficient to do an official add-on for us poor simmers. So I ask again, ethics aside where is the harm being done to DW ?

You can choose not to believe it, but SCS has already explained that the harm they seek to prevent is in their government contracts. So you can stop asking.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

There's nothing wrong with respecting a company's property. And it certainly seems to be outright illegal according to ML, who I don't doubt is correct.

But I have to admit, as someone who bought the original Battlefront release I would absolutely love for DW to be picked up by outlaw programmers like Falcon 4 was. A for profit company that has any sense will never again be able to make a serious modern naval combat simulation without charging upwards of $100. Which I would gladly pay, but I seriously doubt that's happening anytime soon.

PD

OK. So it is illegal. I would defer to Molon Labe's judgement. I believe he is in the legal profession, if I'm not mistaken. On your second paragraph, you do make good points. But I still have concerns that SCS could view this as a reason to definitely not ever consider developing products using their sim engine. If they don't believe that consumers will respect their licensing, it's not hard to see the incentive being tapped out of it. And they are the only company that realistically has developed modern naval sims for us. Think about that.

[goldorak]

ML : I have already told you that SCS has nothing to fear from US firms or the US Navy (since they are one of their clients no ? ) because it is ILLEGAL to use unlicensed software. Pure and simple. You pay enormous fines and can go to jail by using unlicesed/pirated software. So all this talking about how the US Navy or other firms would use this (pirate) mod is simply and uterly ridiculous.
The problem are not the corporations, the problem is that they don't want us simmers to mod the game. Just accept it for what it is.