Counting the lies.....

[JoeCorrado]

Originally Posted by Thomen

Wait.. you are asking people to vote for someone who asks a guy who sits in a wheel chair to stand up, and mocks McCain for not being able to handle a computer because of his injuries he received in the service for his country?
Mhm.. seems rather discriminatory to me, don't ya think?
What will be the change again? Oh, right.. I will have to foot your medical bill.., my capital gains taxes go up, I will probably loose my student grants ( he was not really clear on that one). What else? Oh yea, he advocates increased Federal spending. Hey, if you want him to spend more of your money thats fine and dandy, but keep your hands off my trove.

Thanks, but no thanks.

You sure do seem to be confused. That is OK though, just stay in school and continue learning about these things. While you study, please allow me to assist in your intellectual enlightenment:

In opening, please face the fact that McCain's "disabilities" as you describe them certainly do not prohibit from learning to use a computer in any way. What is alarming is that you somehow wish to link McCain's services 40 years ago to this election as if they mattered more than his marital infidelities. If you really wish to make his past behavior a topic for discussion- understand that you get the bad with the good and as his Keating Five Buddies might agree- you really don't want to go there with me.

Now, on to your rambling and inaccurate reply to my own well thought out, factual, and reasonable comments. :rotfl:

1st: I pay for my own medical insurance, so unless you wish to begin your next statement with an illiterate misrepresentation- please confine your comments to the public facts and not my personal situation of which you know nothing.

2nd: I and every other American pays currently for a disease care system that will prevent a person from seeing their doctor for a case of the sniffles, but will dip into the public coffers to foot the bill when the sniffles deteriorate to pneumonia because of a lack of care and a $3.00 prescription.

3rd: As you must know, it is illegal for a hospital to turn away a person based upon their ability to pay, but there is no such prohibition made upon doctors who are quite able to tell those who cannot pay for the office visit to simply return to the street and die there. THAT situation is one that unnecessarily costs the American taxpayers tens of billions of dollars each year.

4th: A large and ever growing segment of the population already receives socialized health care- they are those who receive Medicare, Medicaid and as you must surely know- that number is growing.

Medicare serves Social Security beneficiaries 65 years and older, as
well as the long-term disabled.3 In 2003, 85 percent of the 41 million
Medicare recipients qualified because of age.

Link

5th: Please- complain to me of your capital gains taxes going up after you have seen them reduced year after year in the backwards attempt to make "trickle down economics" work in America. I am willing to pay more because I can afford it while it seems you are quite willing to see millions others suffer so that you can afford to what... send yourself through college based upon those "capital gains cuts" and those student grants are would appear to come under the same "welfare" programs that you are so against when they assist some other American other than yourself. THAT my friend smacks of things that I will not describe here in order to spare exposing your hypocrisy.

6th: You dare to bring up increased federal spending in defense of an administration and a political party that has nearly bankrupted the American People?? You dare to spout nonsense about fiscal responsibility after eight years of George Bushes spend, spend, spend and borrow, borrow, borrow policies that have catered to the few at the expense of the many and to out children. Take it somewhere else champ that garbage won't fly here.

7th: Your trove you say? Keep my hands of your trove?? Listen up partner- you claim to be a student- that means that either you got your "trove" through inheritance or through some ill gotten means. Please explain to me how a student requiring "grants" to get through college has such an impressive trove to start with? Or was that just banging out the latest talking points from McCain.com??

I could go on, and I am tempted since you make it so easy, but instead I would suggest that you learn the facts behind the issues before you enter the polling place or you may just get what you want- and in your case I am sure that that would be just exactly what you deserve.

__________

Obama will cut taxes for nearly all Americans, unless you "EARN" over $250,000.00 per year, you will not see a tax increase for those earnings.

Obama will GIVE you a $4,000.00 tax credit to attend college- how does negatively affect your "grants" in any way?

Obama WILL make it the right of every American Citizen to seek medical care for minor ailment and not just the serious and life threatening ones that we pay for today. Seems a smart and affective way to get control of the current system that is actually broken in a very expensive and backward thinking way. We MUST fix health care for several reasons besides the one that addresses your initial grievance. Health care costs are out of control and unless it is fixed- we face a national disaster of truly "epidemic" proportions.

If you choose to respond to my reply- please comes armed with something more substantial and factual than your initial post. I don't mind enlightening those who are misled or misinformed- but you do bare a little responsibility in understanding the facts and not just regurgitating McCain's latest hype.

[Thomen]

Originally Posted by Platapus

I have never heard McCain claim that his injuries would prevent him from using a computer. Looking at him, I can't see how they could prevent it. John McCain does not use a computer but cause he has never had the need to use a computer. He has staff to handle that sort of stuff.

How many old guy executives are in the same boat?

I am sure that McCain could learn to use a computer if he had a need to.

Ok.. got it:

The reason McCain gets help with e-mail is that his severe war injuries prevent him from doing many things many of us take for granted, including typing on a keyboard.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blu...em-internet-pi

And here is: Why it might be a bad idea of using e-mail in the white house:

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLI...ena/index.html

Basically, if you use e-mail in the WH, you SOL if the s@#$ hits the fan. So, yea.. no need to be computer savvy, plus we do not want anyone loose their jobs because the Pres wants to type everything himself.

[Kataki]

Originally Posted by JoeCorrado

You sure do seem to be confused. That is OK though, just stay in school and continue learning about these things. While you study, please allow me to assist in your intellectual enlightenment:

In opening, please face the fact that McCain's "disabilities" as you describe them certainly do not prohibit from learning to use a computer in any way. What is alarming is that you somehow wish to link McCain's services 40 years ago to this election as if they mattered more than his marital infidelities. If you really wish to make his past behavior a topic for discussion- understand that you get the bad with the good and as his Keating Five Buddies might agree- you really don't want to go there with me.

Now, on to your rambling and inaccurate reply to my own well thought out, factual, and reasonable comments. :rotfl:

1st: I pay for my own medical insurance, so unless you wish to begin your next statement with an illiterate misrepresentation- please confine your comments to the public facts and not my personal situation of which you know nothing.

2nd: I and every other American pays currently for a disease care system that will prevent a person from seeing their doctor for a case of the sniffles, but will dip into the public coffers to foot the bill when the sniffles deteriorate to pneumonia because of a lack of care and a $3.00 prescription.

3rd: As you must know, it is illegal for a hospital to turn away a person based upon their ability to pay, but there is no such prohibition made upon doctors who are quite able to tell those who cannot pay for the office visit to simply return to the street and die there. THAT situation is one that unnecessarily costs the American taxpayers tens of billions of dollars each year.

4th: A large and ever growing segment of the population already receives socialized health care- they are those who receive Medicare, Medicaid and as you must surely know- that number is growing.

Link

5th: Please- complain to me of your capital gains taxes going up after you have seen them reduced year after year in the backwards attempt to make "trickle down economics" work in America. I am willing to pay more because I can afford it while it seems you are quite willing to see millions others suffer so that you can afford to what... send yourself through college based upon those "capital gains cuts" and those student grants are would appear to come under the same "welfare" programs that you are so against when they assist some other American other than yourself. THAT my friend smacks of things that I will not describe here in order to spare exposing your hypocrisy.

6th: You dare to bring up increased federal spending in defense of an administration and a political party that has nearly bankrupted the American People?? You dare to spout nonsense about fiscal responsibility after eight years of George Bushes spend, spend, spend and borrow, borrow, borrow policies that have catered to the few at the expense of the many and to out children. Take it somewhere else champ that garbage won't fly here.

7th: Your trove you say? Keep my hands of your trove?? Listen up partner- you claim to be a student- that means that either you got your "trove" through inheritance or through some ill gotten means. Please explain to me how a student requiring "grants" to get through college has such an impressive trove to start with? Or was that just banging out the latest talking points from McCain.com??

I could go on, and I am tempted since you make it so easy, but instead I would suggest that you learn the facts behind the issues before you enter the polling place or you may just get what you want- and in your case I am sure that that would be just exactly what you deserve.

__________

Obama will cut taxes for nearly all Americans, unless you "EARN" over $250,000.00 per year, you will not see a tax increase for those earnings.

Obama will GIVE you a $4,000.00 tax credit to attend college- how does negatively affect your "grants" in any way?

Obama WILL make it the right of every American Citizen to seek medical care for minor ailment and not just the serious and life threatening ones that we pay for today. Seems a smart and affective way to get control of the current system that is actually broken in a very expensive and backward thinking way. We MUST fix health care for several reasons besides the one that addresses your initial grievance. Health care costs are out of control and unless it is fixed- we face a national disaster of truly "epidemic" proportions.

If you choose to respond to my reply- please comes armed with something more substantial and factual than your initial post. I don't mind enlightening those who are misled or misinformed- but you do bare a little responsibility in understanding the facts and not just regurgitating McCain's latest hype.

tl;dr ;] lol sorry, regardless of my stance ont he issue, and yours, I really appreciate the effort that went into writing that post Maybe I'll grow a pair and try to read/comprehend all of that at some point.

[Thomen]

Originally Posted by JoeCorrado

snippage for unimportance and mistated facts.

You are just too smart for me! :hmm:

I just skimmed through it, but you might want to fact check some of your statements.
Medicare and Medicaid are completely different. Medicare is insurance that is funded by trust funds that the recipients have paid into. Medicaid is welfare/assistance.

http://hhs.gov/faq/medicaremedicaid/85.html

Furthermore, you might want to re-think and re-word your statement about hospitals. The EMTALA (Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act) only requires that a hospital provide examination and treatment for emergency medical condition, and then only if they have an emergency department.

http://injury-law.freeadvice.com/mal...l_patients.htm

http://public.findlaw.com/abaflg/flg-17-1b-3.html

But hey, nobody is perfect.

And with that, I will leave you to your pipe dreams of superiority.

[Enigma]

Wow. You go away for 24 hours.....

From my favorite Subsimmer:

t looks like Enigma could care less about the actual issues than just proving that the candidate from the other side is worthless.

Couldn't be further from the truth. I'm simply infuriated with the sheer volume of completely intentional and downright lies coming from McCains campaign. I don't say here that Obama is fantastic and the other guy sucks. I say the volume of BS from the McCain campaign is astounding. I don't think Democrats should be outraged, I think Americans should. noone in the so called liberal media has yet to call them on these and many other lies. It's a national disgrace, in my humble opinion.

As for the issues, I have an opinion on just about all of them, and by and large, I disagree With McCain on just about every issue.

I actually kinda like John. He's a rare breed of human being, and I have alot of respect for his service to this country in more ways than one. I can't understand why he is willing to allow his campaign to become such a mill for outright lies, especially with regards to Palin. The scarier idea, is that he doesn't know what is a lie and isn't.

[Enigma]

Bridge to nowhere lies. After dropping this part of her stump speech while in Alaska, she's at it again......

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archi...3/1394679.aspx

[Enigma]

To top it off, McCain spokesman Brian Rogers said this to the Politico about the increased media scrutiny of the campaign's factual claims: "We’re running a campaign to win. And we’re not too concerned about what the media filter tries to say about it.”

Nice.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archi...3/1393986.aspx

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Thomen

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blu...em-internet-pi

Fair enough, I never knew that.

[Enigma]

"McCain has gone in some of his ads -- similarly gone one step too far," he told Fox News, "and sort of attributing to Obama things that are, you know, beyond the '100 percent truth' test."

Know who said that? Liberal Media? Nope. Karl Frikkin Rove. :rotfl:

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Enigma

Couldn't be further from the truth. I'm simply infuriated with the sheer volume of completely intentional and downright lies coming from McCains campaign. I don't say here that Obama is fantastic and the other guy sucks. I say the volume of BS from the McCain campaign is astounding. I don't think Democrats should be outraged, I think Americans should. noone in the so called liberal media has yet to call them on these and many other lies. It's a national disgrace, in my humble opinion.

Sorry if I got it wrong. I just see some saying how awful one side is, and others claiming the other side is a slug, and I don't see many solutions being offered other than to say "Don't vote for that guy - he's a jerk!" Which is not to say I have any solutions either, but watching people take one side or the other and then try to pretend they're being fair and open-minded wears me out.

I'm just looking for the right third-party guy to write in, so people don't tell me I can't complain because I didn't vote.

[Enigma]

The reason McCain gets help with e-mail is that his severe war injuries prevent him from doing many things many of us take for granted, including typing on a keyboard.

Indeed. You will notice he doesn't lift his arms above shoulder height. Damage done to him by his captors using methods of torture. Terrible thing.

It adds to my confusion, however, that a man having experienced such evil would support a bill that allows the CIA to use methods of torture.

[Enigma]

Sorry if I got it wrong. I just see some saying how awful one side is, and others claiming the other side is a slug, and I don't see many solutions being offered other than to say "Don't vote for that guy - he's a jerk!" Which is not to say I have any solutions either, but watching people take one side or the other and then try to pretend they're being fair and open-minded wears me out.

No apology necessary, and point well taken. I just felt it was worth talking about.

[Kapt Z]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

First, let me say that this is a very nice example of people from both sides finding it easier to just slam the other side than try to find some actual answers. It looks like Enigma could care less about the actual issues than just proving that the candidate from the other side is worthless. And SUBMAN1 comes back with the witty reply that he can show the candidate on the other side is even more worthless.

@ Mikhayl: I don't think SUBMAN1 qualifies as a troll, because as I understand it a troll just stirs up trouble, and I think SM1 really believes what he says and that he's doing the community a service by trashing the other side, much as Enigma does.

That said, Mikhayl is responding to the fact that SM1 seems to think that honest debate is something to be avoided and only ever posts with insults rather than discussions on the issues, then accuses anyone who points this out of attacking him. He then goes on to counter-attack with insults on the original's intelligence, and claims to have issues with both sides but only one of them is worthy of his 'satire'.

But the general conception is that you support McCain and hate Obama, and besides the occassional denial everything you say seems to support that observation.

This is why people give warnings about debating politics and religion. What we have on this thread is not a debate, or even an argument, but a feces-flinging contest of the highest order. I love a good debate, but some of you don't seem capable of engaging in one.

No honesty from either side here, yet both claim the other is lying and they're not.

Am I the only one with a headache???

[Kataki]

Also if anyone needed more on the whole bridge to no where thing i posted these in another thread :P I'm still surprised that fox news is actually reporting this correctly for once, WTF IS GOING ON?!

http://www.adn.com/sarahpalin/story/511471.html

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ici5RhMkh6-9V07yckpLBEEjzf6QD932MU100

http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed7/idUSN3125537020080901

[1480]

Originally Posted by Enigma

Indeed. You will notice he doesn't lift his arms above shoulder height. Damage done to him by his captors using methods of torture. Terrible thing.

It adds to my confusion, however, that a man having experienced such evil would support a bill that allows the CIA to use methods of torture.

He understands what a great tool it is