Gun battle in London Square

[jumpy]

^^
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle2409817.ece

We are so self-congratulatory about our officially disarmed society, and so dismissive of colonial rednecks, that we have forgotten that within living memory British citizens could buy any gun – rifle, pistol, or machinegun – without any licence. When Dr Watson walked the streets of London with a revolver in his pocket, he was a perfectly ordinary Victorian or Edwardian. Charlotte Brontë recalled that her curate father fastened his watch and pocketed his pistol every morning when he got dressed; Beatrix Potter remarked on a Yorkshire country hotel where only one of the eight or nine guests was not carrying a revolver; in 1909, policemen in Tottenham borrowed at least four pistols from passers-by (and were joined by other armed citizens) when they set off in pursuit of two anarchists unwise enough to attempt an armed robbery. We now are shocked that so many ordinary people should have been carrying guns in the street; the Edwardians were shocked rather by the idea of an armed robbery.
If armed crime in London in the years before the First World War amounted to less than 2 per cent of that we suffer today, it was not simply because society then was more stable. Edwardian Britain was rocked by a series of massive strikes in which lives were lost and troops deployed, and suffragette incendiaries, anarchist bombers, Fenians, and the spectre of a revolutionary general strike made Britain then arguably a much more turbulent place than it is today. In that unstable society the impact of the widespread carrying of arms was not inflammatory, it was deterrent of violence.
As late as 1951, self-defence was the justification of three quarters of all applications for pistol licences. And in the years 1946-51 armed robbery, the most significant measure of gun crime, ran at less than two dozen incidents a year in London; today, in our disarmed society, we suffer as many every week.

[bookworm_020]

Gun Crime has decilined for the last decade here in Australia. It had been in decline before 1997 and the shooting at Port Arthur in Tasmania, but the ban on semi-automatic weapons and the gun buy back helped speed up the deciline.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Ar...28Australia%29

[joegrundman]

Is your point, Subman, that if we are all armed in the UK, as you are in the US, then British gun crime will drop to US levels?

[Kapitan_Phillips]

the Edwardians were shocked rather by the idea of an armed robbery.

Well, somehow I cant picture a driveby with a car full of wig wearing men toting these:

[jumpy]

Dick Turpin anyone? "I say, you Sir! Stand and deliver!"

somehow I think it would probably be one of these instead:
http://www.theothersideofkim.com/ima...y_MkII_455.jpg

[Oberon]

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by bookworm_020

Gun Crime has decilined for the last decade here in Australia. It had been in decline before 1997 and the shooting at Port Arthur in Tasmania, but the ban on semi-automatic weapons and the gun buy back helped speed up the deciline.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Ar...28Australia%29

Why ? :hmm:

Have you ran out of aboriginal targets already ?

[STEED]

There is always gun battles in London. That's why I wear a bullet proof vest when I visit the toilet sorry London.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

Is your point, Subman, that if we are all armed in the UK, as you are in the US, then British gun crime will drop to US levels?

I don't need to argue with you, nor do I need to tell you anything since your history already precedes you and that will tell you more than anything I can. In the 1970's, 1980's, and 1990's when anyone that wanted to be armed could be over there, your gun crime was still historically low - half of what it is before they took your guns and things doubled (This should also tell you something since your gun crime is rising). You don't follow the US models in this area which makes me alternately think that most of you out there are very courteous and respectful.

-S

[Tchocky]

In the 1970's, 1980's, and 1990's when anyone that wanted to be armed could be over there

There has been firearm legislation in the UK since just after WW1, iirc.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by Kapitan_Phillips

Well, somehow I cant picture a driveby with a car full of wig wearing men toting these:

You're 250 years off man! The time period of the article would be this instead:

-S



PS. I think I'm gonna buy one of these. Might be fun to shoot a classic!

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

I don't need to argue with you, nor do I need to tell you anything since your history already precedes you and that will tell you more than anything I can. In the 1970's, 1980's, and 1990's when anyone that wanted to be armed could be over there, your gun crime was still historically low - half of what it is before they took your guns and things doubled (This should also tell you something since your gun crime is rising). You don't follow the US models in this area which makes me alternately think that most of you out there are very courteous and respectful.

-S

Subman, this is pretty wonky thinking you have here. Where is the evidence that a rise in gun crime is triggered by the implimentation of more robust gun control measures?

Do you not think that social and econmic presures might have something more to do with criminals resorting to the use of firearms in the first place, and gun control measures being implimented as a result?

I think you are approaching gun violence in the UK with quite a number of false and incorrect assumptions, which may hold true in the US but not in the UK.

BTW, firearms related crimes actually fell in 2007, look at the stats.

[SUBMAN1]

Originally Posted by mrbeast

Subman, this is pretty wonky thinking you have here. Where is the evidence that a rise in gun crime is triggered by the implimentation of more robust gun control measures?

Again, I beg to differ! You are the one with the wonky thinking (again). You only need look at the rise since they took them, versus the history prior to that, and you will find your answer.

Do you not think that social and econmic presures might have something more to do with criminals resorting to the use of firearms in the first place, and gun control measures being implimented as a result?

What a cop out idea - maybe you can prove this theory in favor of the obvious? And besides, you keep telling me that social and economic pressures are getting better in the UK. Why are you reversing your story now? Your a funny guy!

I think you are approaching gun violence in the UK with quite a number of false and incorrect assumptions, which may hold true in the US but not in the UK.

BTW, firearms related crimes actually fell in 2007, look at the stats.

Yes - it fell to 4,019 incidents - over 11 per day! Nice! I like your woinky thinking though. Makes for fun poking it back at ya!

-S

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by mrbeast

Do you not think that social and econmic presures might have something more to do with criminals resorting to the use of firearms in the first place, and gun control measures being implimented as a result?

Yep. Thats the major factor for most crime and with society sinking into the mud it will continue to climb.

[mrbeast]

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Again, I beg to differ! You are the one with the wonky thinking (again). You only need look at the rise since they took them, versus the history prior to that, and you will find your answer.

Subman, what you present demonstrates nothing. What I'm looking for is a causational link, not just an excercise in comparing two sets of numbers and then making a half baked conclusion, something I'm afraid to say you do a lot of on this forum.

What a cop out idea - maybe you can prove this theory in favor of the obvious?

Crime is just caused by 'bad people' then I guess.

And besides, you keep telling me that social and economic pressures are getting better in the UK. Why are you reversing your story now?

quotes please?

Your a funny guy!

I'm glad I could lighten up your day

Yes - it fell to 4,019 incidents - over 11 per day! Nice! I like your woinky thinking though. Makes for fun poking it back at ya!

Compared to what in the US? Subman, theres around 10,000 gun-related homicides in the US every year not even counting the suicides and accidents.