[WIP] OLC Environment for GWX 2.0 (BETA) - Page 10

onelifecrisis · 03-04-08, 09:16 AM

I'm working on the horizon and thought I'd put up a preview. You can see the beginnings of this work (some changes to the horizon cloud color) in the alpha but a lot more has been done since then. I'll let the pics do the talking.

Left/Right = GWX 8km / OLC 8km

All four pictures are taken in the same place at the same time (just after sunset) in the same conditions (partial cloud, no fog) and looking in the same direction etc. etc. That's the same convoy you can see on the horizon (exactly 8km away).

Click on the picture to enlarge it.

Now for a bit of a technical ramble.

The 16km horizon is something I've wanted to fix for a while, but... SH3 has an horrendous fudge for trying to simulate ships being over the horizon i.e. partially obscured at long range, so that you can see only the masts and smoke. This is how it does it:

The ships are always rendered on a perfectly flat plane. The sea itself is on an inverted sphere, so that it is rasied up near the horizon. Shrink the sphere enough, and you get this:

By setting the sphere to the same size as the earth (something which I've yet to see in stock or in any mod, btw) you will get exactly the right amount of ship occlusion for a camera at sea level i.e. for a scope, but you will also get the sea itself rendered part way up into the sky, so that the ship doesn't look at all like its vanishing over the horizon, it just looks like its sinking into the sea.

There are some things that can be done to mitigate this problem but not enough. The sea itself can be both fogged (to merge with the sky) and clipped (at a certain height) but these things just make ships look like they're floating in fog instead of sinking into the sea. This is how its been implemented in the 16km mod and that's part of the reason why the horizon looks so unconvincing there.

Speaking of floating ships, you can invert the sphere but like I said the ships are rendered on a flat plane regardless, so you end up with floating ships again (and a gap between the sky and the horizon to boot).

So anyway...
When your eye level is 5m above sea level (as it is when you're surfaced and standing on the bridge) the horizon is almost exactly 8km away. So in the 8km version, I've just made the sea flat. Problem solved. But in the 16km mod I'm :hmm:

:hmm:

:hmm: over what to do. The only nice solution I can think of is to again make the sea flat. This would look alright (certainly better than what we have now, especially when combined with my other horizon fixes) but it would also be rather unrealistic.

Cheers
OLC

onelifecrisis · 03-04-08, 09:36 AM

Meh, I'm being too picky. Even at 16km a ship would only have 5m of its hull obscured, so a flat ocean wouldn't be that unrealistic.

Cool. Sometimes it's good to just write stuff out - clears the mind and all that.

Adriatico · 03-04-08, 09:43 AM

Great work OLC

* * *

Be carefull when adding red colour...

It always turns out to be "more red than intended", on a big surface, when you add "a little bit"...

Very agressive colour...

onelifecrisis · 03-04-08, 09:51 AM

I didn't add any red colour to anything, what you're seeing there is the cloud reflection (which I made less transparent). I'm still tinkering with that.

Edit: BTW Adriacto, those are the colours of the clouds immediately after sunset. They're the same as in the alpha. Didn't you say those should be more red?

:p

Mikhayl · 03-04-08, 09:57 AM

That's looking really good, it's a pity I didn't have (or take) a minute to test the Alpha yet. I always play with 16km mods so that's cool you can sort this version too (well even if you don't I guess I'll leave 16km for your 8km mod :hmm

onelifecrisis · 03-04-08, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikhayl

That's looking really good, it's a pity I didn't have (or take) a minute to test the Alpha yet. I always play with 16km mods so that's cool you can sort this version too (well even if you don't I guess I'll leave 16km for your 8km mod :hmm

Sorry I guess I didn't make it clear but I will be proceeding with 16km, but it will have a completely flat ocean (i.e. no ship occlusion on the horizon) as that's the only solution I can think of which doesn't have major drawbacks.

Phoenix3000 · 03-04-08, 10:22 AM

Hi OLC,

Good work with the mod, but I 'think' I understand what you mean about having to use a flat ocean for the 16km mod, but can you possibly post a couple of screenshots for comparison between the 8km and 16km versions? It's probably easier to understand if we saw the difference.

I have been using your alpha version since you released it, and I'm very impressed with the distance views I'm getting. Only last night the watch crew called out a contact at long range and when checking through the binoculars I could just make out a smoke plume literally touching the horizon. For me it did look like ir was 'over the horizon' - much better than before.

Cheers OLC!

Px3000

onelifecrisis · 03-04-08, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix3000

...can you possibly post a couple of screenshots for comparison between the 8km and 16km versions?

Will do when its ready.

Adriatico · 03-04-08, 12:37 PM

Almost right, Maestro

I asked this, just slightly colored : Time 17.50

...just a 3-4 % increased coloring.

(to have one drop of blue with a half-drop of violet in sky/clouds...in 1 litar of grey color )

Just forget it...

***
Only thing you should remember is... that every "burning " cloud is in a sharp contrast with greenish surface reflection.

Just do it your way

... 100 people > 100 visual tastes...

onelifecrisis · 03-04-08, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adriatico

Only thing you should remember is... that every "burning " cloud is in a sharp contrast with greenish surface reflection.

If you mean the cloud reflections (?) yes you're right, they're too strong, like I said they're still being tweaked. Part of the problem is, you can't make the cloud reflections a different colour to the clouds. As for the 17:50 screeny, can you say when (date) and where (grid) that was taken?

Edit: nm, I can tell from the screeny its definitely twilight. Like I said those colours are being reworked quite a bit (wave textures looked very wrong in conjunction with clouds). Here's a screeny of the current state of it (sun is about 10 degrees over horizon here):

thesarunat · 03-04-08, 02:28 PM

Great work...
BTW I was really impressed about that inverted sphere...

What a weird approach to geography, those folks...

onelifecrisis · 03-04-08, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesarunat

What a weird approach to geography, those folks...

Weird indeed.

Philipp_Thomsen · 03-04-08, 03:28 PM

Remember that old discussion about my computer being crap?

Well, I've noticed something, OLC. On external camera, pressing ".", if I aim the camera to show the uboat and the ocean, my frames are near 50 fps. If I show just a little bit of sky, then It drops down to 10, even below 10. Any idea why? This sky is 5 times harder to render?

Wilcke · 03-04-08, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philipp_Thomsen

Remember that old discussion about my computer being crap?

Well, I've noticed something, OLC. On external camera, pressing ".", if I aim the camera to show the uboat and the ocean, my frames are near 50 fps. If I show just a little bit of sky, then It drops down to 10, even below 10. Any idea why? This sky is 5 times harder to render?

That does not make any sense to me...I was playing last night and did not see any change in FPS.

SH3, GWX 2.0 and OLC great stuff! 16km

Adriatico · 03-04-08, 06:03 PM

- The reflection was not too strong, it was beautifull...

Please do not decrease it !
It was the most beautifull submarine reflection so far...

- Just want to say that if you like to increase violet color of clouds or sea, you'll have to decrease green color of surface

- Screenshot was made in "Giblartar" single mission (stock s.m.) between Spain and Maroco

03-04-08, 09:16 AM	#136
onelifecrisis Maverick Modder Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: England Posts: 3,895 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 3	Horizon I'm working on the horizon and thought I'd put up a preview. You can see the beginnings of this work (some changes to the horizon cloud color) in the alpha but a lot more has been done since then. I'll let the pics do the talking. Left/Right = GWX 8km / OLC 8km All four pictures are taken in the same place at the same time (just after sunset) in the same conditions (partial cloud, no fog) and looking in the same direction etc. etc. That's the same convoy you can see on the horizon (exactly 8km away). Click on the picture to enlarge it. Now for a bit of a technical ramble. The 16km horizon is something I've wanted to fix for a while, but... SH3 has an horrendous fudge for trying to simulate ships being over the horizon i.e. partially obscured at long range, so that you can see only the masts and smoke. This is how it does it: The ships are always rendered on a perfectly flat plane. The sea itself is on an inverted sphere, so that it is rasied up near the horizon. Shrink the sphere enough, and you get this: By setting the sphere to the same size as the earth (something which I've yet to see in stock or in any mod, btw) you will get exactly the right amount of ship occlusion for a camera at sea level i.e. for a scope, but you will also get the sea itself rendered part way up into the sky, so that the ship doesn't look at all like its vanishing over the horizon, it just looks like its sinking into the sea. There are some things that can be done to mitigate this problem but not enough. The sea itself can be both fogged (to merge with the sky) and clipped (at a certain height) but these things just make ships look like they're floating in fog instead of sinking into the sea. This is how its been implemented in the 16km mod and that's part of the reason why the horizon looks so unconvincing there. Speaking of floating ships, you can invert the sphere but like I said the ships are rendered on a flat plane regardless, so you end up with floating ships again (and a gap between the sky and the horizon to boot). So anyway... When your eye level is 5m above sea level (as it is when you're surfaced and standing on the bridge) the horizon is almost exactly 8km away. So in the 8km version, I've just made the sea flat. Problem solved. But in the 16km mod I'm :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: over what to do. The only nice solution I can think of is to again make the sea flat. This would look alright (certainly better than what we have now, especially when combined with my other horizon fixes) but it would also be rather unrealistic. Cheers OLC __________________ Freedom of speech - priceless. For everything else there's Mastercard. Last edited by onelifecrisis; 03-04-08 at 10:03 AM.

03-04-08, 09:36 AM	#137
onelifecrisis Maverick Modder Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: England Posts: 3,895 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 3	Meh, I'm being too picky. Even at 16km a ship would only have 5m of its hull obscured, so a flat ocean wouldn't be that unrealistic. Cool. Sometimes it's good to just write stuff out - clears the mind and all that. __________________ Freedom of speech - priceless. For everything else there's Mastercard.

03-04-08, 09:43 AM	#138
Adriatico Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2007 Location: Periscope depth Posts: 860 Downloads: 119 Uploads: 0	Great work OLC * * * Be carefull when adding red colour... It always turns out to be "more red than intended", on a big surface, when you add "a little bit"... Very agressive colour... __________________

03-04-08, 09:51 AM	#139
onelifecrisis Maverick Modder Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: England Posts: 3,895 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 3	I didn't add any red colour to anything, what you're seeing there is the cloud reflection (which I made less transparent). I'm still tinkering with that. Edit: BTW Adriacto, those are the colours of the clouds immediately after sunset. They're the same as in the alpha. Didn't you say those should be more red? :p __________________ Freedom of speech - priceless. For everything else there's Mastercard.

03-04-08, 12:37 PM	#144
Adriatico Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2007 Location: Periscope depth Posts: 860 Downloads: 119 Uploads: 0	Almost right, Maestro I asked this, just slightly colored : Time 17.50 ...just a 3-4 % increased coloring. (to have one drop of blue with a half-drop of violet in sky/clouds...in 1 litar of grey color ) Just forget it... *** Only thing you should remember is... that every "burning " cloud is in a sharp contrast with greenish surface reflection. Just do it your way ... 100 people > 100 visual tastes... __________________

03-04-08, 09:57 AM	#140
Mikhayl Captain Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 485 Downloads: 64 Uploads: 0	That's looking really good, it's a pity I didn't have (or take) a minute to test the Alpha yet. I always play with 16km mods so that's cool you can sort this version too (well even if you don't I guess I'll leave 16km for your 8km mod :hmm

03-04-08, 10:22 AM	#142
Phoenix3000 Weps Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, England (Usually in a pub...) Posts: 358 Downloads: 49 Uploads: 0	Hi OLC, Good work with the mod, but I 'think' I understand what you mean about having to use a flat ocean for the 16km mod, but can you possibly post a couple of screenshots for comparison between the 8km and 16km versions? It's probably easier to understand if we saw the difference. I have been using your alpha version since you released it, and I'm very impressed with the distance views I'm getting. Only last night the watch crew called out a contact at long range and when checking through the binoculars I could just make out a smoke plume literally touching the horizon. For me it did look like ir was 'over the horizon' - much better than before. Cheers OLC! Px3000

03-04-08, 02:28 PM	#146
thesarunat Watch Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: -14 m. below Lake Leman :-D Posts: 15 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Great work... BTW I was really impressed about that inverted sphere... What a weird approach to geography, those folks...

03-04-08, 03:28 PM	#148
Philipp_Thomsen Old Gang Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Drunk at the whorehouse Posts: 2,278 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	Remember that old discussion about my computer being crap? Well, I've noticed something, OLC. On external camera, pressing ".", if I aim the camera to show the uboat and the ocean, my frames are near 50 fps. If I show just a little bit of sky, then It drops down to 10, even below 10. Any idea why? This sky is 5 times harder to render? __________________ To each his own

03-04-08, 06:03 PM	#150
Adriatico Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2007 Location: Periscope depth Posts: 860 Downloads: 119 Uploads: 0	- The reflection was not too strong, it was beautifull... Please do not decrease it ! It was the most beautifull submarine reflection so far... - Just want to say that if you like to increase violet color of clouds or sea, you'll have to decrease green color of surface - Screenshot was made in "Giblartar" single mission (stock s.m.) between Spain and Maroco __________________