Are You a Creationist or an Evolutionist? (See Post For Details) - Page 2

Stealth Hunter · 02-16-08, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laufen zum Ziel

You can't go wrong if you stick with the GWX big bang.

Wenn Ihr Rad ist nicht gebrochen nicht fix it.

Fish · 02-17-08, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEED

We will all find out one day.

You can't find out anything after you die, because you are dead then.

CCIP · 02-17-08, 03:58 PM

I don't subscribe to evolution in any political way, but once you break it down conceptually, I guess that's what I'm largely into.

Fish · 02-17-08, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

What evidence supports Creationism?

From the video:

Quote:

I have found by repeated testing that the Bible is scientifically reliable. So now I use the Bible as a roadmap to guide me into new scientific territory. ...

I require any theory ... to conform to what the scripture clearly says.

I guess two things jumping out at me - Why aren't all the stars the same age. And if the light could cross the universe in two days (by whatever means) Why did it stop.

Blacklight · 02-17-08, 06:49 PM

The evidence for evolution is pretty much overwhelming if you look at the genetic components of different species...and there's proof that it's still going on even in humans. We're evolving along with our environment and through our own doing. IE.. We are taller than we were in the past. We live a lot longer. etc...
This is due to medical advances and also changes to our environment that we have made.

kiwi_2005 · 02-17-08, 08:58 PM

I would have to go Creationism the religous type.

Sailor Steve · 02-17-08, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brag

I find it curious that people of a supposedly advanced nation choose to ignore reality and take shelter in myth. When one observes nature one cannot help but see the hand of God.

What you see is only 'evidence' if you're predisposed to believe it. The more I look, the less real evidence I see.

antikristuseke · 02-17-08, 11:03 PM

I have to agree here, the more our understaning of nature advances the less need there is of the supernatural to explain it.

Sea Demon · 02-17-08, 11:15 PM

The acknowledgement of the mechanisms of nature, does not negate the hand of God. I've always believed in the nature of the universe, the physical principles as their foundation, as a creation of God himself. The existence of science, does not negate God's existence in anyway whatsoever. In fact, the order and balance of it all, gives me greater faith in the hand of God. The more I understand nature, the stronger the relationship to God becomes. To me, the order and balance of things simply cannot be a cosmic accident.

Sea Demon · 02-17-08, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacklight

The evidence for evolution is pretty much overwhelming if you look at the genetic components of different species...and there's proof that it's still going on even in humans. We're evolving along with our environment and through our own doing. IE.. We are taller than we were in the past. We live a lot longer. etc...
This is due to medical advances and also changes to our environment that we have made.

Agreed. But one can say that evolutionary processes have been put in motion to allow for changes in genetic code to changing environmental factors. Perhaps that's the way God intended. I don't believe that God and scientific principles need be exclusive of one another.

antikristuseke · 02-17-08, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

The acknowledgement of the mechanisms of nature, does not negate the hand of God. I've always believed in the nature of the universe, the physical principles as their foundation, as a creation of God himself. The existence of science, does not negate God's existence in anyway whatsoever. In fact, the order and balance of it all, gives me greater faith in the hand of God. The more I understand nature, the stronger the relationship to God becomes. To me, the order and balance of things simply cannot be a cosmic accident.

I can understand your point of view, and I agree that science doe not exlcude God or gods. Actualy science does not comment on anything supernatural because by definition the supernatural is outside of its realm.
But science does not claim that all that we have before us was a cosmic accident, that is a straw man argument commonly used by creationists (not accusing you, just pointing out an observation). For me personaly the natural laws, even concidering how little we really understand them, are ennough to explain our existance and the existance of the universe without there being anything of the supernatural involved.

This is where my limited English really gets in the way of trying to communicate what I mean, but hopefully this is ennough to get my viewpoint across.

Fish · 02-18-08, 01:44 PM

I started with believing Genesis, then moved to Sea Demon's point of view.
Now I am with Antikristuseke.

XLjedi · 02-18-08, 02:24 PM

Personally, these topics don't bother me at all. I do think atheists sometimes don't like to be confronted with the concept of an infinite God though.

I prefer to just rely on faith for my personal saving knowledge of Christ, but scientifically speaking, there are just too many unknowns to be so absolutely certain that God's hand can just be dismissed...

Do I need to prove there's a God? Could I even introduce perhaps a shadow of a doubt in the mind of an atheist? What represents our understanding of the infinite universe? If the universe were finite and represented a 12'x12' wall could I point to a pin-sized dot on the wall and say, "Here's what we understand?" Does it not take as much, if not more, faith to suggest that God doesn't exist in that vast infinite area that we know nothing about? :hmm:

Is it beyond the power of an infinite God to create humans who perhaps grow a tad larger over time due to improved health conditions? ...or perhaps in the same species of turtle give one a longer neck to more easily reach the food it needs? Darwin recanted his own theories before he died, and it's also fairly well known that his origin of the species was targetted more at racial superiority. Must I believe that because scientists dig up remains that they claim to be millions of years old that the Earth must therefore be that old? I s'pose it's beyond the power of God to just form the crust of the Earth with interesting things to discover already contained in it... or I dunno maybe Satan wanders around hollowing out strange shapes in the Earth just to cast doubt?

All I can say to those who dismiss God is... I hope for your own sake, you're right. In which case, all you need to endure is your own pointless life. The full realization of that must certainly be a depressing point to ponder. If God does exist however, and if the Bible is in fact true, perhaps not all believers in creation are wasting away their precious Sunday morning nap time paying homage to some fictitious being. Perhaps the uplifting and joyful message of the Gospel is not all just blissful ignorance.

The worst case scenario for me is, I end up no better off than an atheist. Although, the hope of living happily into eternity gives me a more joyful outlook during my short existance on this planet. In terms of eternity, is there really any upside for an atheist? ...anything to look forward to?

To me, the argument that there is no creator is akin to looking at a painting and suggesting there is no painter... Through a series of random events, it just happened to come into existance. Which by the way, sounding as ridiculous as it may, is more statistically likely to happen than a whole infinite universe just popping out of an infinitely small point. ...and even if you do subscribe to the big bang tiny point theory... What caused the infinite universe to exist in a single tiny point to begin with?

Perhaps it was God putting his plan into motion that caused the eruption of life from infinite nothingness?

Iceman · 02-18-08, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

The acknowledgement of the mechanisms of nature, does not negate the hand of God. I've always believed in the nature of the universe, the physical principles as their foundation, as a creation of God himself. The existence of science, does not negate God's existence in anyway whatsoever. In fact, the order and balance of it all, gives me greater faith in the hand of God. The more I understand nature, the stronger the relationship to God becomes. To me, the order and balance of things simply cannot be a cosmic accident.

I cannot add to this.

Iceman · 02-18-08, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronblood

What caused the infinite universe to exist in a single tiny point to begin with?

Perhaps it was God putting his plan into motion that caused the eruption of life from infinite nothingness?

Genesis 1

[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

BANG!

[4] And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
[5] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

"Please do not presume to know what a Day is to a being that exsists in an eternal state.This is ignorance on the part of man."

[6] And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

...the rest is our life.

View Poll Results: Are you a Creationist or an Evolutionist?
Evolutionist	53	62.35%
Neither/Other	12	14.12%
Creationist	20	23.53%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

02-17-08, 03:58 PM	#18
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	I don't subscribe to evolution in any political way, but once you break it down conceptually, I guess that's what I'm largely into. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

02-17-08, 06:49 PM	#20
Blacklight Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,507 Downloads: 145 Uploads: 0	The evidence for evolution is pretty much overwhelming if you look at the genetic components of different species...and there's proof that it's still going on even in humans. We're evolving along with our environment and through our own doing. IE.. We are taller than we were in the past. We live a lot longer. etc... This is due to medical advances and also changes to our environment that we have made. __________________ Be my friend or be a mushroom cloud. "I am coming at you. You will explode in a couple of minutes !"

02-17-08, 08:58 PM	#21
kiwi_2005 Eternal Patrol Join Date: May 2004 Location: Aeoteroa Posts: 7,382 Downloads: 223 Uploads: 1	I would have to go Creationism the religous type. __________________ RIP kiwi_2005 Those who can't laugh at themselves leave the job to others.

02-18-08, 02:24 PM	#28
XLjedi Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Palm Beach, Florida Posts: 1,243 Downloads: 53 Uploads: 8	Personally, these topics don't bother me at all. I do think atheists sometimes don't like to be confronted with the concept of an infinite God though. I prefer to just rely on faith for my personal saving knowledge of Christ, but scientifically speaking, there are just too many unknowns to be so absolutely certain that God's hand can just be dismissed... Do I need to prove there's a God? Could I even introduce perhaps a shadow of a doubt in the mind of an atheist? What represents our understanding of the infinite universe? If the universe were finite and represented a 12'x12' wall could I point to a pin-sized dot on the wall and say, "Here's what we understand?" Does it not take as much, if not more, faith to suggest that God doesn't exist in that vast infinite area that we know nothing about? :hmm: Is it beyond the power of an infinite God to create humans who perhaps grow a tad larger over time due to improved health conditions? ...or perhaps in the same species of turtle give one a longer neck to more easily reach the food it needs? Darwin recanted his own theories before he died, and it's also fairly well known that his origin of the species was targetted more at racial superiority. Must I believe that because scientists dig up remains that they claim to be millions of years old that the Earth must therefore be that old? I s'pose it's beyond the power of God to just form the crust of the Earth with interesting things to discover already contained in it... or I dunno maybe Satan wanders around hollowing out strange shapes in the Earth just to cast doubt? All I can say to those who dismiss God is... I hope for your own sake, you're right. In which case, all you need to endure is your own pointless life. The full realization of that must certainly be a depressing point to ponder. If God does exist however, and if the Bible is in fact true, perhaps not all believers in creation are wasting away their precious Sunday morning nap time paying homage to some fictitious being. Perhaps the uplifting and joyful message of the Gospel is not all just blissful ignorance. The worst case scenario for me is, I end up no better off than an atheist. Although, the hope of living happily into eternity gives me a more joyful outlook during my short existance on this planet. In terms of eternity, is there really any upside for an atheist? ...anything to look forward to? To me, the argument that there is no creator is akin to looking at a painting and suggesting there is no painter... Through a series of random events, it just happened to come into existance. Which by the way, sounding as ridiculous as it may, is more statistically likely to happen than a whole infinite universe just popping out of an infinitely small point. ...and even if you do subscribe to the big bang tiny point theory... What caused the infinite universe to exist in a single tiny point to begin with? Perhaps it was God putting his plan into motion that caused the eruption of life from infinite nothingness? __________________ Last edited by XLjedi; 02-18-08 at 02:43 PM.

02-17-08, 11:03 PM	#23
antikristuseke Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Estland Posts: 4,330 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	I have to agree here, the more our understaning of nature advances the less need there is of the supernatural to explain it.

02-17-08, 11:15 PM	#24
Sea Demon Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,552 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	The acknowledgement of the mechanisms of nature, does not negate the hand of God. I've always believed in the nature of the universe, the physical principles as their foundation, as a creation of God himself. The existence of science, does not negate God's existence in anyway whatsoever. In fact, the order and balance of it all, gives me greater faith in the hand of God. The more I understand nature, the stronger the relationship to God becomes. To me, the order and balance of things simply cannot be a cosmic accident.

02-18-08, 01:44 PM	#27
Fish Eternal Patrol Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,923 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I started with believing Genesis, then moved to Sea Demon's point of view. Now I am with Antikristuseke.