[REL] [WIP] IJN DC mod - Page 6

Peto · 12-04-07, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

I'm amazed at how the AI changes the dynamics of DC attacks. More deliberate, fewer ashcans per pass, etc.

I'm not sure a slower reload time will make a huge difference. It might also be because I picked a mission with so many escorts that they were having to back up and take turn to try and kill me, lol.

tater

The DC's sound great tater! A couple shots like that and you have to break off your patrol and head for the barn. That should happen more often than getting sunk IMO.

I've noticed the escorts being more deliberate in the Prolonged Attack mod. I think it's because they have to open the range to try to reaquire. A mix of escorts with regular loadouts and modified ones would be very interesting. Another element of not knowing what you're getting into.

I don't want to say this prematurely but it seems that things are shaping up nicely. This sim is gonna rock!

Wilcke · 12-04-07, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

I'm amazed at how the AI changes the dynamics of DC attacks. More deliberate, fewer ashcans per pass, etc.

I'm not sure a slower reload time will make a huge difference. It might also be because I picked a mission with so many escorts that they were having to back up and take turn to try and kill me, lol.

tater

This is working well, the last two nights I have run the Burma Convoy Mission first without your mod then with.....nice contrast. I used the outside camera to watch the three DD's hunt and DC. Much more realistic than the "raining" ashcans of the night before that was hilarious to watch.

Well done and thanks! A must have, I will now see if Peto's extended DD attack is compatible with this in some way for my "flavored to taste"; this is actually a really fun process.

Laters!

Wilcke

tater · 12-04-07, 12:15 PM

Might try adding an AP value, though I was saving this as a last-resort.

Stock DCs in contact are really brutal. As I said a few pages back the maxradius is a critical value.

As I recall from other DM threads, the radius needs to cross possibly multiple zones where one zone actually screens another. That might be the critical factor.

So with a 40m radius DC, it crosses the barriers and damages stuff. The down side is that it over damages the sub from distant "hits" IMO.

Looks like the radius needs to be on the same scale size as a sub length to be really nasty sans AP.

tater

Peto · 12-04-07, 12:32 PM

I can't say I envy the amount and type of testing you have to go through for this... If you want me to help out with certain settings let me know. I can tweak the files here as you indicate. The downside being--you already have a visual benchmark and I might "see" things differently.

The AP value is interesting. Are you thinking of values in whole numbers or 0.1s?

tater · 12-04-07, 12:43 PM

If you read up the thread, I was testing AP values on par with the sub's armor value, 25.

BOOM.

Heheh.

tater

Peto · 12-04-07, 12:45 PM

Peto · 12-04-07, 01:03 PM

Brainstorming (probability of useless=HIGH): Do internal Components have a damage/hit point rating? For example: Does it take X amount of damage to bonk a Diesel or a Pump? Could these components themselves be resisting damage and creating an X Factor that makes test results so variable?

tater · 12-04-07, 01:25 PM

Yes.

And so opens the can of worms. Search for redwine's threads about his "die slowly" mod. It's a huge can of worms.

Regarding the diesel engine damage problem (there are 4, and you should be able to move with any of them working, but in game there are 2 that will take damage alone and leave you dead in the water, end of career). One idea would be to armor it quite a bit so the damage threshhold to even hurt it was such that only a direct hit on that part of the hull by a DC would ever have a chance. The gun DMs would be increased (or their AP values) so that surface actions would always be able to damage them with decent deck guns.

The problem is such a mod becomes less "portable" and requires a "supermod" sensibility.

tater

DeepIron · 12-04-07, 01:59 PM

Quote:

The problem is such a mod becomes less "portable" and requires a "supermod" sensibility.

Gads... with the proliferation of new and updated mods, the concept of installing a SuperMod is looking more and more appealing... I can see where "One Stop Shopping" would be good for a noobie or someone who simply wants "it all in one package". I follow the mod threads pretty close but it's a chore at times and there is SO much going on!

I'm running 4 complete SH4 installs using JSMGE, MultiSH4 and JTxE for support:

A. Plain jane patched to v1.4
B. Copy of A with TM 1.7
C. Copy of A with Sobers Super Mod
D. Copy of A for my own work and other miscellanous mods...

Thank goodness for cheap hard drive real estate!

tater · 12-06-07, 06:38 PM

I may bump the MaxRadius up a bit for all of them. Maybe ~20m (from 16-16.5)for the 100kg range DCs, and ~30 for the 162kg (from 25m).

I need more lethality.

On the plus side, I've managed to get the diesels protected from all but the loss of the "father" compartment itself. So when the engine room takes 100% hitpoint damage, the diesels die (that's what I am assuming, anyway).

That might not go far enough, either.

tater

Peto · 12-06-07, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

I may bump the MaxRadius up a bit for all of them. Maybe ~20m (from 16-16.5)for the 100kg range DCs, and ~30 for the 162kg (from 25m).

I need more lethality.

On the plus side, I've managed to get the diesels protected from all but the loss of the "father" compartment itself. So when the engine room takes 100% hitpoint damage, the diesels die (that's what I am assuming, anyway).

That might not go far enough, either.

tater

It sounds a lot better than what we had before though! Good work tater!!!

leovampire · 12-06-07, 07:26 PM

Doing the Midway Mission was great after using NVDrifters changes for the depth charge shake mod and camera work.

And eventualy the 30 DD's did run out of depth charges :rotfl: :rotfl:

So I will be using it again of course in my game.

tater · 12-06-07, 08:20 PM

Cool, glad you like it leo!

Having encouraged many DDs and kaibokans to sink I don't know how many boats lately, I've been surprised at how many VERY NEAR misses gave me no more than "deck gun damaged!" results and no hull % damage (before the % indicator I was worried a lot about cumulative damage). While I still think I was overly beat up by the 40m stock versions (enough to damage a sub at ~20m most of the time), I think that the range does need to be upped a little. It will make the close hits worse as they intersect more zones, and there will be a little more incremental damage, which I like.

A 30m radius will result in SOME damage (the minimum that registers) out as far as maybe 17m. More serious damage at 10m, but nothing like fatal. Testing tonight a little, then I'll release a new version (stock, TM/ICL versions, and since I don't want to muck with lurker's eqps (and none are changed anyway save akizuki) I can make a RSRD version as the only eqp changed will be to fix akizuki.).

tater

leovampire · 12-06-07, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

Cool, glad you like it leo!

Having encouraged many DDs and kaibokans to sink I don't know how many boats lately, I've been surprised at how many VERY NEAR misses gave me no more than "deck gun damaged!" results and no hull % damage (before the % indicator I was worried a lot about cumulative damage). While I still think I was overly beat up by the 40m stock versions (enough to damage a sub at ~20m most of the time), I think that the range does need to be upped a little. It will make the close hits worse as they intersect more zones, and there will be a little more incremental damage, which I like.

A 30m radius will result in SOME damage (the minimum that registers) out as far as maybe 17m. More serious damage at 10m, but nothing like fatal. Testing tonight a little, then I'll release a new version (stock, TM/ICL versions, and since I don't want to muck with lurker's eqps (and none are changed anyway save akizuki) I can make a RSRD version as the only eqp changed will be to fix akizuki.).

tater

Having 20 to 30 DC's droped on me at a time from all the DD's was nut's and took forever to repair the sub and try and stay afloat so to speak so no need to increase damage range on my part! :rotfl: :rotfl:

It was an amazing thing to stay in the interior camera views with the Adjustments I made from NVDrifters DC shake mod. I felt like I was in the U-571 movie during the making of it and kept away from the Bulk heads.

All the crew with no shirts on trying to stop the leaks and get the pumps working to get the water out and pray the DC's missed long enough to get the sub repaired and water pumped out.

Another words I liked the old work just fine!

tater · 12-06-07, 09:47 PM

Cool. As I said someplace up in the thread, or maybe it was my "lethailty poll," I plan on making a few versions available for people. I think it's one of those things that is very hard to test in a controlled way, and at a certain level, it's personal taste.

So I think .92 might make a decent "slighly less nasty" version, and upping the radii for a "slightly more nasty" version.

I'm very interested in feedback on if the escorts run out of ashcans.

I think something like Peto's mod is pretty useful for making the DC attacks slower, and more deliberate which will stretch out the ammo. Tough call vs TM...

12-04-07, 12:32 PM	#79
Peto Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The details of my life are quite inconsequential Posts: 1,049 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I can't say I envy the amount and type of testing you have to go through for this... If you want me to help out with certain settings let me know. I can tweak the files here as you indicate. The downside being--you already have a visual benchmark and I might "see" things differently. The AP value is interesting. Are you thinking of values in whole numbers or 0.1s? __________________ If your target has a 30 degree AOB, the range from his base course line equals the current range divided by 2.

12-04-07, 12:45 PM	#81
Peto Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The details of my life are quite inconsequential Posts: 1,049 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	__________________ If your target has a 30 degree AOB, the range from his base course line equals the current range divided by 2.

12-04-07, 01:03 PM	#82
Peto Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The details of my life are quite inconsequential Posts: 1,049 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Brainstorming (probability of useless=HIGH): Do internal Components have a damage/hit point rating? For example: Does it take X amount of damage to bonk a Diesel or a Pump? Could these components themselves be resisting damage and creating an X Factor that makes test results so variable? __________________ If your target has a 30 degree AOB, the range from his base course line equals the current range divided by 2.

12-06-07, 07:26 PM	#87
leovampire Eternal Patrol Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Waterbury, CT. USA Posts: 2,336 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I loved your first release of this mod Tater Doing the Midway Mission was great after using NVDrifters changes for the depth charge shake mod and camera work. And eventualy the 30 DD's did run out of depth charges :rotfl: :rotfl: So I will be using it again of course in my game. __________________ AIR_BASE_NAV_MAP_MOD Reflections_on_the_Water

12-04-07, 12:15 PM	#78
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Might try adding an AP value, though I was saving this as a last-resort. Stock DCs in contact are really brutal. As I said a few pages back the maxradius is a critical value. As I recall from other DM threads, the radius needs to cross possibly multiple zones where one zone actually screens another. That might be the critical factor. So with a 40m radius DC, it crosses the barriers and damages stuff. The down side is that it over damages the sub from distant "hits" IMO. Looks like the radius needs to be on the same scale size as a sub length to be really nasty sans AP. tater

12-04-07, 12:43 PM	#80
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	If you read up the thread, I was testing AP values on par with the sub's armor value, 25. BOOM. Heheh. tater

12-04-07, 01:25 PM	#83
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Yes. And so opens the can of worms. Search for redwine's threads about his "die slowly" mod. It's a huge can of worms. Regarding the diesel engine damage problem (there are 4, and you should be able to move with any of them working, but in game there are 2 that will take damage alone and leave you dead in the water, end of career). One idea would be to armor it quite a bit so the damage threshhold to even hurt it was such that only a direct hit on that part of the hull by a DC would ever have a chance. The gun DMs would be increased (or their AP values) so that surface actions would always be able to damage them with decent deck guns. The problem is such a mod becomes less "portable" and requires a "supermod" sensibility. tater

12-06-07, 06:38 PM	#85
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	I may bump the MaxRadius up a bit for all of them. Maybe ~20m (from 16-16.5)for the 100kg range DCs, and ~30 for the 162kg (from 25m). I need more lethality. On the plus side, I've managed to get the diesels protected from all but the loss of the "father" compartment itself. So when the engine room takes 100% hitpoint damage, the diesels die (that's what I am assuming, anyway). That might not go far enough, either. tater

12-06-07, 08:20 PM	#88
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Cool, glad you like it leo! Having encouraged many DDs and kaibokans to sink I don't know how many boats lately, I've been surprised at how many VERY NEAR misses gave me no more than "deck gun damaged!" results and no hull % damage (before the % indicator I was worried a lot about cumulative damage). While I still think I was overly beat up by the 40m stock versions (enough to damage a sub at ~20m most of the time), I think that the range does need to be upped a little. It will make the close hits worse as they intersect more zones, and there will be a little more incremental damage, which I like. A 30m radius will result in SOME damage (the minimum that registers) out as far as maybe 17m. More serious damage at 10m, but nothing like fatal. Testing tonight a little, then I'll release a new version (stock, TM/ICL versions, and since I don't want to muck with lurker's eqps (and none are changed anyway save akizuki) I can make a RSRD version as the only eqp changed will be to fix akizuki.). tater

12-06-07, 09:47 PM	#90
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Cool. As I said someplace up in the thread, or maybe it was my "lethailty poll," I plan on making a few versions available for people. I think it's one of those things that is very hard to test in a controlled way, and at a certain level, it's personal taste. So I think .92 might make a decent "slighly less nasty" version, and upping the radii for a "slightly more nasty" version. I'm very interested in feedback on if the escorts run out of ashcans. I think something like Peto's mod is pretty useful for making the DC attacks slower, and more deliberate which will stretch out the ammo. Tough call vs TM...