When are we going to see the end of US bashing?

[Reaves]

Penicillin and the wine cask. You can keep your war machines and stuff, we save lives and transport wine in devices which can later be used as a pillow.

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by Reaves

Haha it's that type of arrogance which causes people to think little of Yanks. - hahah 'world series'

Personally I feel the same need to bash the USA as any other country that isn't Australia, let's face it, compared to us you're just second best.

:p

Go ahead and bash away. Why the Hell do we care? We don't want to live in Australia. It's hot, infested with mice, and was once a prison colony; plus, it has tons and tons of animals that can kill you in seconds. Keep it. You're doing us a favor.

EDIT: Don't forget the aborigines.

[Reaves]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Go ahead and bash away. Why the Hell do we care? We don't want to live in Austrailia. It's hot, infested with mice, and was once a prison colony; plus, it has tons and tons of animals that can kill you in seconds. Keep it. You're doing us a favor.

Was once a prison colony? More honour in that then having the foundations of my nation built by SLAVE LABOUR.

Oh but please continue Mr fraidy cat who is scared of mice.

:rotfl:

[Torplexed]

There probably once was a time decades ago when people thought everyday communication between people of different nations would result in better understanding and harmony among nations.:hmm:

Nope. Just childish taunts, rants and insults. Hooray for the internet.

[Chock]

Haha it's that type of arrogance which causes people to think little of Yanks. - hahah 'world series'

I don't think that is the arrogance people think it is. I was under the impression that the 'world series' was called that because it was originally sponsored by 'The World' newspaper, wasn't it?

Incidentally, the 'airplane' or aeroplane if you prefer, was not invented in 1903, that was the first manned flight by a heavier than air powered aircraft, by Orville and Wilbur Wright, the first aeroplanes were flown years before that in a number of countries, Sir George Cayley in 1804 being one example.

Chock

[Reaves]

Originally Posted by Torplexed

There probably once was a time decades ago when people thought everyday communication between people of different nations would result in better understanding and harmony among nations.:hmm:

Nope. Just childish taunts, rants and insults. Hooray for the internet.

Only when it comes to football codes imo. Personally i've talked to heaps of people from Europe and America (including Canada and some weird South American countries) and learn a lot about other nations. Food in particular. Dutch people for example are pretty cool and talk funny.

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

...consider everything else the United States has given the world....

I think that sums up how thing are. Whatever your point of view on the US you can look at that sentense and affirm your feelings with it.

What I see in this thesis about America bashing is a fundamental failure of logic. It is assumed that any critical eye towards the US is not about a reasonable disagreement but rather about an emotional envy. This reminds me of everytime the hardliners disagree with socialism on this board. Its not that socialism can't work, its that the motives for wanting it are ignoble! This isn't about facts. This is about a propogandistic style of thought. The 'with us or a'gin us' idea. It simplifies the nature of nations and geo-politics into something that should be more like bible study than social studies.

The second flaw in the logic is that there is no distinction made between criticizing American policy and America as an abstract symbol or nation. If I disagree with policies in the Middle East I hate freedom, the constitution, white people, christians, babies that live in Wisconsin, methodists from Texas, and the stars and stripes. You're the one that goes on and on about the evils of government WG, yet apparently when I don't like what your evil federal government does I'm 'bashing'.

It doesn't make sense because the same emotional accusation made against critical opponents of American policies or behavior feeds those who make the argument. We're all envious of America... why? Cause we owe so much to them! We're all a bunch of ingrates. You see it all the time. Implying that our own nations are not as important. This option in the poll is particularly enlightening as to this argument:

Yes, my country will become more relevent in the world

So what do I really think ? Within America itself its a wonderful place, mostly. They have the greatest constitution in the world. A true symbol for democracy everywhere. However America's external policies are no different than any empire before it. Failing to see the parallels in the policies and the apparent blind spots about American atrocities in regard to toppling free societies leaves me with little hope for real discourse on the subject with anyone other than those that already agree with me. Democracy within America is great, but where the boots hit the ground they might as well be wearing Red Coats instead of MARPAT.

EDIT. Also I didn't vote in the poll because none of the options left me with the choice of saying bashing isn't actually whats happening.

[Hakahura]

As P_Funk said it's not really bashing.

I would agree that around the world the US is pretty unpopular these days.
But then so has every "superpower" that has preceded it.

IMHO one of the few historical constants is the rise and fall of empires.
When your on top you have to accept that not many people are going to like you, especially if you like throwing your weight around (What superpower hasn't?).
Was the UK popular when it had an empire? Were people happy being raped and pillaged by Gengis Khan's crew? How many nations were big on being conquered by the Romans?

As they say in America..... "It goes with the territory".

Don't worry at some point, as with all superpowers, the US will lose it's dominance and fall.
Then it will be somebody else's turn. They too will feel like the whole world is bashing them.

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

If you look through the science books, you don't ever hear the name "Warren de la Rue".

In short, he may have, but Edision is still going to be remembered for it.

In that case the science books are written by people who dont know what they are writing about, i dotn really see that as an exucse for calling the light bulb an america invention.

Based on the view numbers this thread has touched a cord. I'd like to thank everyone for participating, both in the poll and any comments you have posted.

Honestly, I'm a bit concerned by those of you who voted for every option. Especially those of you who did so without any comment.

The Poll goes on for a few more days and I'm starting to get a handle on what the board is thinking. I may post another poll thread with different questions, trying to get more to the heart of the matter.

Again thanks to all!!

wg

[Stealth Hunter]

Originally Posted by Reaves

Was once a prison colony? More honour in that then having the foundations of my nation built by SLAVE LABOUR.

Oh but please continue Mr fraidy cat who is scared of mice.

:rotfl:

Aborigines...

Prison colonies are nothing to be proud of, they're just admittance that you had a huge crime rate at one point.

By the way, England never really abolished the slavery deal (that's including the indentured servants) until long after the United States (they had documents and claimed they did, but indentured servants were basically the legal slave; they did whatever you said, and they were stuck in your service until you allowed them to go).

Continue, shall we?:rotfl:

[baggygreen]

Yes, continue we shall! http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=123087

:rotfl:

technically, our crime rate wasnt too high, it was the british crime rate that was high! Can you see the irony of it all though? "As punishment, you are banished from dark, dreary 19th century England to bright, sunny, warm penal colonies". WOOHOO!:rotfl:

I could go on with great things about here, but i think the thread above shows it pretty damn well

[Reaves]

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

Aborigines...

Prison colonies are nothing to be proud of, they're just admittance that you had a huge crime rate at one point.

By the way, England never really abolished the slavery deal (that's including the indentured servants) until long after the United States (they had documents and claimed they did, but indentured servants were basically the legal slave; they did whatever you said, and they were stuck in your service until you allowed them to go).

Continue, shall we?:rotfl:

Aboringines? Here, have some blankets..........

I've been to the USA, it's a nice place.

And What does England having slaves have anything to do with Australia? You said my country was started by prisoners, I said yours was made by slaves, it's pretty similar imo especially since most of the so called prisoner's only crime was stealing food, but yeah I guess they should have just hung them.

I don't need to continue, i'm as patriotic as anyone is about their country. I love my home and will always see it above any other piece of dirt. I'm not about to call you a fool for doing the same to your home... That's what my intial post was sort of saying.

The fact is though (and thread topic), globally the USA has a bad reputation for delusions of self importance and arrogance. Do you want to give me a reason to begin thinking like that or something?

[Chock]

By the way, England never really abolished the slavery deal (that's including the indentured servants) until long after the United States

So what was all that segregation stuff that Martin Luther King was complaining about then? Or did he really have a dream?

Incidentally, in the main city nearest to me (Manchester, Northern England), there is a square right opposite the newspaper office where I used to work. It's called Lincoln Square, and it has a statue of Abraham Lincoln in the middle of it. If you read the bronze plaque on the bottom of it, you find it is a reproduction of the text from an open letter of thanks from Abraham Lincoln to the mill workers of the North West of England for helping in the fight to abolish slavery. The mill workers, despite their actions leading to extreme privation and hardship, walked out of the mills and refused to work because the mills were providing materials to the Confederates, the Union's blockade of the South hit them badly too, but they still supported the Union's actions all the same. Not bad for a bunch of indentured people who supposedly did what they were told to do eh?

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/ewm/ic3/68.html

http://www.cottontimes.co.uk/usindex.html

Not trying to stoke the fire here incidentally, just pointing something out that not many people seem to know about.

Chock

[Sailor Steve]

Wow, Chock, that is AWESOME! You know how I love history, and this is the first I ever heard of that one. Thanks!

Oh, and I agree about the aeroplane. Wilbur Wright himself wrote to Samuel Langley, then curator of the Smithsonian Institution, asking for information about previous experiments. He stated that they wanted to learn everything they could before beginning their own experiments, including the flying models built by Langley himself. Most scientists and inventors don't work in a vacuum. On the other hand, in 1908 even Santos-Dumont was only flying long distances in a straight line. They were all amazed at Reims when Wilber flew in a figure 8 and stayed aloft for the better part of an hour.