Does this happen often?

Tally Ho · 08-23-07, 01:47 PM

After a few false starts, SH4 Up and Running with TM 1.5...

Captain Tally Ho, USS S-40 out of Manila patrols Celebes Sea, is transferred to Java while at sea, sinks two freighters en route to new home totalling some 4,700 tons.

Combat-blooded and hopeful of further success, S-40 is sent to land troops on Phillipines, en route encounters Jap Task Force, unable to get firing solution on cruisers or escort carrier, but sinks DD 1,687 tons and evades 4 others, continues and lands commandos on Luzon. Dispatched to Luzon Strait to patrol. Encounters two freighters in consort en route, torpedoes one, deck guns the other, 6,500 tons total. Continues on to patrol area.

After several days of no sightings, evading aircraft, S-40 comes across small convoy, five freighters escorted by one DD in heavy weather night action. Lets DD pass by, then raises scope to obtain solution on largest freighter. Watch officer (and possesed of supernatural Bushido senses) Tokeshi Doshu aboard DD spots scope raised for 10 seconds on starless night in foamy stormy seas from1500 yards (oh well), DD commander attacks. S-40 fires two torps at large freighter, both just miss. While evading oncoming DD, tries a snap shot with other two at small freighter very close, but freighter turns toward, closes range, torps both hit but bounce off, having had only 300 yards to run and did not arm. S-40 dives deep.

Charging DD blasts S-40 with depth charges. Forward torpedo room severely flooding, plane control severed, batteries damaged, many injured crewmen. Depth control briefly lost, regained only by partial blowing of ballast to attempt to rise to 70 feet and moving forward slow. After painful creep North, evading further DD runs, S-40 ultimately loses her pusuer and, by 3am is able to surface and effect repairs.

With no remaining fish, severely damaged hull, no plane control, and prospect of repeated air attack come dawn, S-40 retires to the southeast before completing patrol mission, beginning a long, harrowing 3-week limp home to Java. Ultimately, S-40 brought home safe with no souls lost.

Here's the rub....

In 2 war patrols, Dec '41 through Feb '42, USS S-40 does the following:
Successfully completes 1 patrol assignment (Celebes)
Successfully lands troops undetect on Luzon
Sinks 5 ships (including 1 DD) totalling almost 13,000 tons
Retires early from 1 patrol assignment following engagement, all torps expended and heavy damage, damaged boat brought home safe through dangerous seas, no losses.
LCdr Tally Ho earns Purple Heart and Bronze Star for Valor for actions saving S-40.

So, I come to base feeling reasonably proud of all this, and am told 'The Admiral decides I am more suited to a position on his staff. Now go fetch his coffee.' or somesuch, and told my career is over, a miserable failure that could have perhaps been mitigated if only I had been more aggressive, or words to that effect.

This elicits a blank stare from me, then much cursing at the monitor...

While I do not doubt the realism of a sudden reassignment to a staff position for even a moderately successful sub skipper, it made for a horribly unsatisfying game experience. In three months (two at sea) I had sunk 5 ships, attacked everything in sight, fled battle only when I was heavily damaged and with no weapons, and brought my crew home safe (and was decorated for it). I was proud, happy, and looking forward to the continuance of a promising career, only to have what felt like a 'random encounter' senslessly cut it all short and make it feel like a waste.

What makes this happen? Is it just a random chance? Did I do something wrong? Should I (against all common sense) have lingered with a crippled, toothless boat in the patrol area until the star turned gray? As my last action as the commander of S-40, can I turn my deck gun on the admiral's staff car? What gives?

LCdr Tally Ho
Staff Attache to Adm. A. Dufuus
Surabaya NAS, Java

AVGWarhawk · 08-23-07, 02:00 PM

Nice story....I'm not sure but completing the mission apparently is more important than sinking ships on the way to the mission. I think the games sees it as a failure not completing the mission and as a result you get mothballed. Often I let little merchants go or not waste to much time on them as I proceed to the the mission point. Convoy and task force I will go after. I will use the deck gun when I can. More often than not I save my torps for the area I'm to patrol. This, I believe, will keep you from getting to be the Admirals coffee fetcher. This is my experience with it and I have yet to be retired.

FAdmiral · 08-23-07, 02:09 PM

Although this retire thing may have been a RL thing incorporated by the
Dev team, it is just not what gaming players want to hear after playing
a game they have really gotten into. I, for one, would like to just see it
removed for this game entirely. If the devs want to create a personnel
game about naval warfare, then fine, go for the active duty and retirement.

JIM

GT182 · 08-23-07, 02:39 PM

Could the "Retirement" part be modded out of the sim? Then it wouldn't be so personal and destroy any chance of enjoyment by those new to SH4 and the rest of use that fall prey to Admirals whims.

Tally Ho · 08-23-07, 04:41 PM

While not perhaps realistic for a war zone, at least from a game standpoint it would be nice to be issued a warning if the Admiralty thinks your performance was unsatisfactory, that way you would have a chance to 'shape up or ship out' on your next patrol, without just being summarily dismissed.

In all honesty, I thought I did a good job. I followed my orders to the best of my ability, attacking only targets of opportunity en route to my mission areas and even patrolled my mission area for five or six days, making one unsuccessful attack that damaged me and forced withdrawal, rather than staying around without torps for another howevermany days and facing death, hardly the sort of thing one would think would warrant the loss of a command. The alternative is to view the Admiral's orders like a Hitlerian 'no retreat' directive come ye home a hero or come not home at all, surely not a prevailing attitude in the US Navy even in the dark hours of '41/Early '42.

Even better than a warning, now that I think on it, would have a desk assignment be non-permanent. You go out, fail an objective, return, and the Admiral (justly or unjustly) gives your command to another skipper, his nephew, whatever, while you push papers for a few months as precious chances to patrol and advance your career slip by. But... all is not lost! Since you obviously weren't a complete waste as a skipper, you're given a chance at redemption a few months later. Maybe the nephew gets a modern boat and you get your beloved pig boat back, or a commander goes on leave and you are assigned a temporary command, or even just another boat. That would feel 'real', allow your career to be affected by the vagaries (and even sometimes injustices) of military whim and bureacracy, and not be an absolute game-killer.

If I knew more about modding, maybe I could do this myself. Perhaps I can begin my education.

LCdr Tally Ho
Still Walking the Admiral's Terrier
NB Surubaya , Java

08-23-07, 01:47 PM	#1
Tally Ho Swabbie Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The American Heartland Posts: 13 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 0	Does this happen often? After a few false starts, SH4 Up and Running with TM 1.5... Captain Tally Ho, USS S-40 out of Manila patrols Celebes Sea, is transferred to Java while at sea, sinks two freighters en route to new home totalling some 4,700 tons. Combat-blooded and hopeful of further success, S-40 is sent to land troops on Phillipines, en route encounters Jap Task Force, unable to get firing solution on cruisers or escort carrier, but sinks DD 1,687 tons and evades 4 others, continues and lands commandos on Luzon. Dispatched to Luzon Strait to patrol. Encounters two freighters in consort en route, torpedoes one, deck guns the other, 6,500 tons total. Continues on to patrol area. After several days of no sightings, evading aircraft, S-40 comes across small convoy, five freighters escorted by one DD in heavy weather night action. Lets DD pass by, then raises scope to obtain solution on largest freighter. Watch officer (and possesed of supernatural Bushido senses) Tokeshi Doshu aboard DD spots scope raised for 10 seconds on starless night in foamy stormy seas from1500 yards (oh well), DD commander attacks. S-40 fires two torps at large freighter, both just miss. While evading oncoming DD, tries a snap shot with other two at small freighter very close, but freighter turns toward, closes range, torps both hit but bounce off, having had only 300 yards to run and did not arm. S-40 dives deep. Charging DD blasts S-40 with depth charges. Forward torpedo room severely flooding, plane control severed, batteries damaged, many injured crewmen. Depth control briefly lost, regained only by partial blowing of ballast to attempt to rise to 70 feet and moving forward slow. After painful creep North, evading further DD runs, S-40 ultimately loses her pusuer and, by 3am is able to surface and effect repairs. With no remaining fish, severely damaged hull, no plane control, and prospect of repeated air attack come dawn, S-40 retires to the southeast before completing patrol mission, beginning a long, harrowing 3-week limp home to Java. Ultimately, S-40 brought home safe with no souls lost. Here's the rub.... In 2 war patrols, Dec '41 through Feb '42, USS S-40 does the following: Successfully completes 1 patrol assignment (Celebes) Successfully lands troops undetect on Luzon Sinks 5 ships (including 1 DD) totalling almost 13,000 tons Retires early from 1 patrol assignment following engagement, all torps expended and heavy damage, damaged boat brought home safe through dangerous seas, no losses. LCdr Tally Ho earns Purple Heart and Bronze Star for Valor for actions saving S-40. So, I come to base feeling reasonably proud of all this, and am told 'The Admiral decides I am more suited to a position on his staff. Now go fetch his coffee.' or somesuch, and told my career is over, a miserable failure that could have perhaps been mitigated if only I had been more aggressive, or words to that effect. This elicits a blank stare from me, then much cursing at the monitor... While I do not doubt the realism of a sudden reassignment to a staff position for even a moderately successful sub skipper, it made for a horribly unsatisfying game experience. In three months (two at sea) I had sunk 5 ships, attacked everything in sight, fled battle only when I was heavily damaged and with no weapons, and brought my crew home safe (and was decorated for it). I was proud, happy, and looking forward to the continuance of a promising career, only to have what felt like a 'random encounter' senslessly cut it all short and make it feel like a waste. What makes this happen? Is it just a random chance? Did I do something wrong? Should I (against all common sense) have lingered with a crippled, toothless boat in the patrol area until the star turned gray? As my last action as the commander of S-40, can I turn my deck gun on the admiral's staff car? What gives? LCdr Tally Ho Staff Attache to Adm. A. Dufuus Surabaya NAS, Java

08-23-07, 02:00 PM	#2
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,274 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Nice story....I'm not sure but completing the mission apparently is more important than sinking ships on the way to the mission. I think the games sees it as a failure not completing the mission and as a result you get mothballed. Often I let little merchants go or not waste to much time on them as I proceed to the the mission point. Convoy and task force I will go after. I will use the deck gun when I can. More often than not I save my torps for the area I'm to patrol. This, I believe, will keep you from getting to be the Admirals coffee fetcher. This is my experience with it and I have yet to be retired. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

08-23-07, 02:09 PM	#3
FAdmiral Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 1,079 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Although this retire thing may have been a RL thing incorporated by the Dev team, it is just not what gaming players want to hear after playing a game they have really gotten into. I, for one, would like to just see it removed for this game entirely. If the devs want to create a personnel game about naval warfare, then fine, go for the active duty and retirement. JIM __________________ If you\'re not taking losses, you\'re not doing enough. RAdm. Kelly Turner, USN ********************************** www.fairtax.org

08-23-07, 02:39 PM	#4
GT182 Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: New Castle of Delaware Posts: 3,231 Downloads: 658 Uploads: 0	Could the "Retirement" part be modded out of the sim? Then it wouldn't be so personal and destroy any chance of enjoyment by those new to SH4 and the rest of use that fall prey to Admirals whims. __________________ Gary No Borders, No Language, No Culture =s No Country I'm a Deplorable, and proud of it.

08-23-07, 04:41 PM	#5
Tally Ho Swabbie Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The American Heartland Posts: 13 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 0	While not perhaps realistic for a war zone, at least from a game standpoint it would be nice to be issued a warning if the Admiralty thinks your performance was unsatisfactory, that way you would have a chance to 'shape up or ship out' on your next patrol, without just being summarily dismissed. In all honesty, I thought I did a good job. I followed my orders to the best of my ability, attacking only targets of opportunity en route to my mission areas and even patrolled my mission area for five or six days, making one unsuccessful attack that damaged me and forced withdrawal, rather than staying around without torps for another howevermany days and facing death, hardly the sort of thing one would think would warrant the loss of a command. The alternative is to view the Admiral's orders like a Hitlerian 'no retreat' directive come ye home a hero or come not home at all, surely not a prevailing attitude in the US Navy even in the dark hours of '41/Early '42. Even better than a warning, now that I think on it, would have a desk assignment be non-permanent. You go out, fail an objective, return, and the Admiral (justly or unjustly) gives your command to another skipper, his nephew, whatever, while you push papers for a few months as precious chances to patrol and advance your career slip by. But... all is not lost! Since you obviously weren't a complete waste as a skipper, you're given a chance at redemption a few months later. Maybe the nephew gets a modern boat and you get your beloved pig boat back, or a commander goes on leave and you are assigned a temporary command, or even just another boat. That would feel 'real', allow your career to be affected by the vagaries (and even sometimes injustices) of military whim and bureacracy, and not be an absolute game-killer. If I knew more about modding, maybe I could do this myself. Perhaps I can begin my education. LCdr Tally Ho Still Walking the Admiral's Terrier NB Surubaya , Java