Found "improvement" mod to install over LWAMI

[BarjackU977]

Hello,

A friend found this mod on a french web site dedicated to naval sims.
As said in the title, it is meant to be installed over LWAMI.

Summed up and translated, here is the list of changes:

• wire-guided active torps give feedback about what they detect (like the russian UUV "torp"): distance to contact, and bearing to contact
• wire-guided passive torps give feedback about what they detect: only bearing to contact
• detection of aerial objects on sonar, if they're at and altitude of 400 ft or less
• MAD/SAD takes mass and aspect into account, which means several passes are necessary to confirm a first measure/detection
• Changed missile speed: Harpoon to 562 kts, pinguin to 794 kts
• Speed of Los Angeles is back to 35 kts
• active and passive sonars take topography into account. No more detection si possible if there is an "obstacle" in between
• 65CM and 53-65K russian torpedoes get the two following modes (working simultaneously): wake-homing and passive

I'd like to have your comments on those changes.

[Dr.Sid]

Well .. what about saying where did you get it ?

Torpedo feedback was part of LWAMI and it was removed because it was impossible to avoid torpedoes.
I'm quite sure even stock DW sonars take topography into account, and I always thought wakehomers work like passive torps when not in the wake, but I'm not sure with this.

It seems to me as if somebody did not liked recent changes in 1.04/LWAMI and made his mini-mod to revert some things back, and for singleplayer purposes only, because of the CM issue.

[OneShot]

I'd be interested to know that this

MAD/SAD takes mass and aspect into account, which means several passes are necessary to confirm a first measure/detection

is all about ...

Because as it is, MAD/SAD takes into account how close you are to the sub and how deep it is (tho you cant really compute the depth from the output - and aspect has no relevance ... MAD detects the disturbance in the Magnetic Field done by the whole sub regardless of its direction upon detection). How I read this (quote) you would have to make multiple runs over the target to actually get a SAD readout (after you initially got a hit on the MAD). This however is incorrect ... the SAD is coupled to the MAD and takes its input from it (dont ask me how this works - i dont know). So if you get a MAD hit you should get a SAD hit immediatly too given that the sub is within the limits of the SAD.

Given the other points brought up by Dr.Sid I serious doubt that this is an "Improvement" ...

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

Well .. what about saying where did you get it ?

Torpedo feedback was part of LWAMI and it was removed because it was impossible to avoid torpedoes.
I'm quite sure even stock DW sonars take topography into account, and I always thought wakehomers work like passive torps when not in the wake, but I'm not sure with this.

It seems to me as if somebody did not liked recent changes in 1.04/LWAMI and made his mini-mod to revert some things back, and for singleplayer purposes only, because of the CM issue.

Dr.Sid do not go assuming things you know nothing about.
This mod, which by the way was created by the mille-sabords dw french comunity players extends the capabilities of the lwami mod all the while being compatibile with it. You don't like it, you think its crap ok, don't install it man. You're not going to die if you remain with lwami mod. And by the way lwami mod won't be the only mod around for dw there are already extensions to lwami and alternatives.
Oh I almost forgot, this mod was developped to enhance MULTIPLAYER, but maybe since you only play in singleplayer it won't affect you at all.
Just be happy man that there are other mods being developped.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by OneShot

I'd be interested to know that this

is all about ...

Because as it is, MAD/SAD takes into account how close you are to the sub and how deep it is (tho you cant really compute the depth from the output - and aspect has no relevance ... MAD detects the disturbance in the Magnetic Field done by the whole sub regardless of its direction upon detection). How I read this (quote) you would have to make multiple runs over the target to actually get a SAD readout (after you initially got a hit on the MAD). This however is incorrect ... the SAD is coupled to the MAD and takes its input from it (dont ask me how this works - i dont know). So if you get a MAD hit you should get a SAD hit immediatly too given that the sub is within the limits of the SAD.

Given the other points brought up by Dr.Sid I serious doubt that this is an "Improvement" ...

Hey OS, how about trying the mod before declaring on an unsubstatiated basis that its crap ?

[Dr.Sid]

Originally Posted by goldorak

Dr.Sid do not go assuming things you know nothing about.
This mod, which by the way was created by the mille-sabords dw french comunity players extends the capabilities of the lwami mod all the while being compatibile with it. You don't like it, you think its crap ok, don't install it man. You're not going to die if you remain with lwami mod. And by the way lwami mod won't be the only mod around for dw there are already extensions to lwami and alternatives.
Oh I almost forgot, this mod was developped to enhance MULTIPLAYER, but maybe since you only play in singleplayer it won't affect you at all.
Just be happy man that there are other mods being developped.

Huh .. I don't think it's crap or anything. I just say it reverts some recent changes in LWAMI (like torpedo feedback). And it was removed becuase of multiplayer. And I understant why.

1) I don't care if anybody mods anything in any way.
2) It's good thing it is possible.
3) It also seems that almost any multiplayer group uses some very own mod pack to suit their 'point of view'. That's perfectly ok.

I guess I must make my posts more positive. I'm trying to be neutral, but I'm getting misunderstood all the time. I'm really nice, calm, positive, most of the time even entertaining person . Well I do criticize a lot, but I don't mean it personally. If you feel offended by my posts, or you feel bitter moods coming from it, I apologize, I NEVER mean it so. But keep me informed, I understand both my English and communication protocols needs upgrades :rotfl:

[goldorak]

Dr Sid, if this new mod is 100% compatibile with lwami in my vocabulary that means that they haven't disabled things that were in the lwami mod. They just added new things without touching the excellent lwami.

Ps: I don't feel offended by your posts, what the heck I'm one that criticizes a lot of things in DW.
I just would like for you to try this mod before coming to conclusions that for all we know can be 100% just plain wrong.

[OneShot]

Well, I havent tried this AddOn Mod (how would you call a Mod of a Mod?) yet and to be honest I dont intend to try it out soon. However I think I did not simply "ditch" the mod ... Dr.Sid posted some points which should be "improved" by the mod and I questioned one of them based on the information I have gathered over the time from DW (and some responses I got way back from Jamie on certain aspects of the MAD system).

Based on this information I simply told my opinion ... that this particular point in fact is neither an improvement nor enhances realism (in my opinion). I might be right ... I might be wrong ... either way thats my opinion. And so far my original question stands unchallenged - because I have not heard what exactly has been changed and how this shall affect gameplay.

Since I can neither speak nor write/read french I'm kinda challenged when it comes to looking at the MilleSabord forums. Since online translators suck in my opinion especially when its about translating whole sentences so that they really make sense afterwards and convey what the author actually wanted to say ... well ...

Now before this deterogates this thread into name calling ... how bout you try and post an indepth review of what this addon mod accomplishes and even more interesting how it does that. That way we all have a basis on which we can argue ...

Cheers
OS

P.S. : When I think something is crap ... I say so. In this particular case I just doubted that this mod is really an improvement ... means I dont know either way for sure.

Im interested too. Dont get offended.
That torpedo stuff sounds nice, if ya can get it working in mp too.
Like to hear more.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Imamar

Im interested too. Dont get offended.
That torpedo stuff sounds nice, if ya can get it working in mp too.
Like to hear more.

Me too!

[BarjackU977]

This MOD indeed comes from the Mille-sabords community, which I recently became part of (as user, not as major contributor, though).

Goldorak, to be 100% clear, as I'm not in the navy nor in any military group, I don't know much about how those "things" (torpedoes, sonars) work in real life, and I was interested to have feedback on those changes (wich is the most realistic), with a secret wish: the one that it would be integrated in LWAMI in case it would bring even more realism.
The multiplayer community is split in small groups because of the many mods around, and I wish we could stick to one major MOD comprising the most interesting, smaller ones (like GWX for SH3).

Now, I understand the concerns about multiplayer interest and torps being able to give feedback. If it makes the trackign of a target too "easy", I may indeed favour some un-realism to make the game a bit harder.

I didn't translate the "readme" with an automatic tool. I translated it myself, since I also find that translation programs still have to improve a lot (a lot more than me ;-) ). I did my best to keep the original meaning, from my own unerstanding of the original text. I was confused about the MAD/SAD text, for example, because I only play with the subs, and I didn't know what it was and had to check.

[BarjackU977]

Originally Posted by Imamar

Im interested too. Dont get offended.
That torpedo stuff sounds nice, if ya can get it working in mp too.
Like to hear more.

Yes, it works in MP too.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by BarjackU977

This MOD indeed comes from the Mille-sabords community, which I recently became part of (as user, not as major contributor, though).

I know this mod comes from mille sabords, I'm a member of that forum mostly as a lurker, but since the end of may, the italian and french dw players play on a regular basis againt each other, so they informed us on their plans about a new mod which would extend the lwami.

Goldorak, to be 100% clear, as I'm not in the navy nor in any military group, I don't know much about how those "things" (torpedoes, sonars) work in real life, and I was interested to have feedback on those changes (wich is the most realistic), with a secret wish: the one that it would be integrated in LWAMI in case it would bring even more realism.

Me neither, I'm a civilian guy, the only time I was in the military was for the military draft (10 months) and not even in the navy lol. I don't think the mille sabords guys would have developped this mod if it were to not extend the realism we already enjoy with lwami mod. On the other hand I prefer for this mod to be yes compatibile with lwami but not integrated in it.
That gives us versatility and most important it doesn't put all the eggs in the same basket.

The multiplayer community is split in small groups because of the many mods around, and I wish we could stick to one major MOD comprising the most interesting, smaller ones (like GWX for SH3).

No I differ on this issue. I would like for most mods to be compatibile with lwami, but what I oppose is to have it integrated by default in the lwami mod. Virtual navies, players etc.. should have the ability to choose excatly how much realism they want over the lwami mod.
The multiplayer comunity is split no because of the mods, but because it a tradition in these games to have different virtual navies (each with its own rules, games, tournaments, etc...).

Now, I understand the concerns about multiplayer interest and torps being able to give feedback. If it makes the trackign of a target too "easy", I may indeed favour some un-realism to make the game a bit harder.

We really don't know what kind of feedback the mod will model. We have to wait until it is publicly released. For a simulation, the more realistic the better.

I didn't translate the "readme" with an automatic tool. I translated it myself, since I also find that translation programs still have to imprive a lot. I did my best to keep the original meaning, from my own unerstanding of the original text. I was confused about the MAD/SAD text, for example, because I only play with the subs, and I didn't know what it was and had to check.

To be honest, what you translated is exact, my self I translated the french notes to italian, for the benefit of the italian players of the betasom forum.
We only need to wait for the public release and then start using it in multiplayer games. I know that at 99% the italian comunity will adopt this mod to play against the french, so all the feedback about how this mod plays will have to wait 'till we resume the matches.

[nemo67]

hello everyone one would say that one speaks about my mod which I made for mille sabords

thus to specify it was about a test this MOD were never used as multijoueurs because of the problems quoted by Dr. sid and oneshot

sorry for my english

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by nemo67

hello everyone one would say that one speaks about my mod which I made for mille sabords

thus to specify it was about a test this MOD were never used as multijoueurs because of the problems quoted by Dr. sid and oneshot

sorry for my english

that means it will never be available for multiplayer ?
Only for singleplayer ?
What a pity the problems you encountered could not be solved for multiplayer games.