Help needed! Sonar spotting ships when surfaced!

AS · 08-12-07, 02:58 PM

Hi all, maybe this has been discussed before, but I´ve got a problem: Since I installed patch 1.3 my sonar man reports contacts when I´m surfaced. On the other hand, my radar does NOT work in manual mode (although equipped), but occasionally (and as i think also randomly) spots contacts. I´m in the beginning of a new career, early war, GAR-class. Any comments? Thanks in advance. And yes, I had a clean install, no Mods whatsoever. Cheers, AS

AVGWarhawk · 08-12-07, 03:04 PM

Yes, after 1.3 the sonar detects ships while surfaced. Being it was possible under the best conditions and the sound gear is found under the chin of the boat, this was implemented in 1.3. I can say from first hand experience that the sonar will work while surfaced. Do I think it is too good at detecting? Yes! We do not have natural interference found in the real world. But, I can count the turns from the water taxi in the inner harbor of Baltimore on the sound gear on the USS Torsk. Bear in mind her engines are off and the water in the harbor is almost always very calm.

AS · 08-12-07, 03:12 PM

Thanks for your quick reply. Do you mean to say that US subs were able to use their sonar while surfaced? I didn´t know that. German U-Boats couldn´t, that´s for sure. Well, the Atlantic is much rougher than the Pacific... Cheers, AS

Redwine · 08-12-07, 07:04 PM

If you do not want to have that hability... just down the max sensor height under the sub draft, but be sure do not move it under the sub keel depth when at periscope depth or it will not works at peri depth.

You must to individualize wich sensor is it... then in example for a sub with draft 6 and peri depth 15 move max sensor height at -10.

SteamWake · 08-13-07, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Yes, after 1.3 the sonar detects ships while surfaced. Being it was possible under the best conditions and the sound gear is found under the chin of the boat, this was implemented in 1.3. I can say from first hand experience that the sonar will work while surfaced. Do I think it is too good at detecting? Yes! We do not have natural interference found in the real world. But, I can count the turns from the water taxi in the inner harbor of Baltimore on the sound gear on the USS Torsk. Bear in mind her engines are off and the water in the harbor is almost always very calm.

Hrm I thought the passive sonar (directional) head was on top. The balls under the 'chin' were the active sonar.

AVGWarhawk · 08-13-07, 11:22 AM

@Steamwake,

These were for supersonic noises I believe. Under the best conditions they could be used and only with close proximity of the noise. If you read some of the accounts, the sub could be surfaced with slow turns on the engines for reduced interference and prop noises could be picked up. It is and was possible. But, with that said, the chin sonars are too good IMHO.

SteamWake · 08-13-07, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

@Steamwake,

These were for supersonic noises I believe. Under the best conditions they could be used and only with close proximity of the noise. If you read some of the accounts, the sub could be surfaced with slow turns on the engines for reduced interference and prop noises could be picked up. It is and was possible. But, with that said, the chin sonars are too good IMHO.

Subsonic maybe ? Thats kind advanced technology for the era.

Correct me if Im wrong but sonar working on the surface, well 'surfaced' with 1.3. Prior to that everyone was bemoaning the fact that the sonar cut off at periscope depth.

I personally think that not working or seriously degraded at pd is the way it should be. :hmm:

AVGWarhawk · 08-13-07, 11:50 AM

Quote:

I personally think that not working or seriously degraded at pd is the way it should be.

No doubt. It is just too good.

AVGWarhawk · 08-13-07, 11:53 AM

http://hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/sonar/chap1.htm

Supersonic. Not that advanced for the time, the sonar people knew all about it. Click the link for some good reading on it.

Fat Bhoy Tim · 08-13-07, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Quote:

I personally think that not working or seriously degraded at pd is the way it should be.

No doubt. It is just too good.

Agreed. All the surface noise should cut it in half.

SteamWake · 08-13-07, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

http://hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/sonar/chap1.htm

Supersonic. Not that advanced for the time, the sonar people knew all about it. Click the link for some good reading on it.

Ah see I was thinking of "supersonic" as being faster than the speed of sound

Been playin too much IL2 :p

Ducimus · 08-13-07, 06:11 PM

From a gameplay standpoint, I woudlnt mind it so much if it didnt interfere with radar.

Theres three hydrophones:

Ball (Used on S boats)
Ball_02 (mounted on under water on the boats "chin" of All other boats)
Head ( mounted on main deck like a uboat)

Its Hydrophone_Ball_02 is the one producing the contacts.

AVGWarhawk · 08-13-07, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

http://hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/sonar/chap1.htm

Supersonic. Not that advanced for the time, the sonar people knew all about it. Click the link for some good reading on it.

Ah see I was thinking of "supersonic" as being faster than the speed of sound

Been playin too much IL2 :p

Yeah, I'm an IL2 fan myself. But, with that said and you probably agree, the surface sonar is just too good. If there was a way to make background noises to interfer. Now we got something! Then again, when I'm listening on the sonar from the Torsk while in the harbor, I can hear the props very clearly.

AVGWarhawk · 08-13-07, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

From a gameplay standpoint, I woudlnt mind it so much if it didnt interfere with radar.

Theres three hydrophones:

Ball (Used on S boats)
Ball_02 (mounted on under water on the boats "chin" of All other boats)
Head ( mounted on main deck like a uboat)

Its Hydrophone_Ball_02 is the one producing the contacts.

What do you think Ducimus? Is there a way to create some background noises while surfaced thus reducing what the sonar man can detect while surfaced?

Ducimus · 08-13-07, 07:23 PM

I beleive the answer to that lays in the sensors.cfg, as i *think* it defines sensors to the player, much like the sim.cfg defines sensor to the AI.

In particular would be hydrophones section. I *thought* about this, but in the end, im too lazy to test it, and it was much quicker and easier for me to just lower then MinsensorHeight and be done with it - cause like i just admited, i got lazy and took the easy way out.

One variable stands out to me, "Speed factor". I *think* its possible specify the hydrophones to only work at say 4-5 kts. This will effect botht surface and submerged however.

08-12-07, 02:58 PM	#1
AS 中国水兵 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 275 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 0	Help needed! Sonar spotting ships when surfaced! Hi all, maybe this has been discussed before, but I´ve got a problem: Since I installed patch 1.3 my sonar man reports contacts when I´m surfaced. On the other hand, my radar does NOT work in manual mode (although equipped), but occasionally (and as i think also randomly) spots contacts. I´m in the beginning of a new career, early war, GAR-class. Any comments? Thanks in advance. And yes, I had a clean install, no Mods whatsoever. Cheers, AS __________________ Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong. (Oscar Wilde)

08-12-07, 03:04 PM	#2
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,256 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Yes, after 1.3 the sonar detects ships while surfaced. Being it was possible under the best conditions and the sound gear is found under the chin of the boat, this was implemented in 1.3. I can say from first hand experience that the sonar will work while surfaced. Do I think it is too good at detecting? Yes! We do not have natural interference found in the real world. But, I can count the turns from the water taxi in the inner harbor of Baltimore on the sound gear on the USS Torsk. Bear in mind her engines are off and the water in the harbor is almost always very calm. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

08-12-07, 03:12 PM	#3
AS 中国水兵 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 275 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 0	Thanks for your quick reply. Do you mean to say that US subs were able to use their sonar while surfaced? I didn´t know that. German U-Boats couldn´t, that´s for sure. Well, the Atlantic is much rougher than the Pacific... Cheers, AS __________________ Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong. (Oscar Wilde)

08-12-07, 07:04 PM	#4
Redwine Sea Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: San Martin de los Andes, Neuquen, , Argentina. Posts: 1,962 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	If you do not want to have that hability... just down the max sensor height under the sub draft, but be sure do not move it under the sub keel depth when at periscope depth or it will not works at peri depth. You must to individualize wich sensor is it... then in example for a sub with draft 6 and peri depth 15 move max sensor height at -10. __________________ . "SH III and SH IV Mods" "Manual TDC Tutorial" "SH2 Downloads Selection"

08-13-07, 11:22 AM	#6
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,256 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	@Steamwake, These were for supersonic noises I believe. Under the best conditions they could be used and only with close proximity of the noise. If you read some of the accounts, the sub could be surfaced with slow turns on the engines for reduced interference and prop noises could be picked up. It is and was possible. But, with that said, the chin sonars are too good IMHO. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

08-13-07, 11:53 AM	#9
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,256 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	http://hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/sonar/chap1.htm Supersonic. Not that advanced for the time, the sonar people knew all about it. Click the link for some good reading on it. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

08-13-07, 06:11 PM	#12
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	From a gameplay standpoint, I woudlnt mind it so much if it didnt interfere with radar. Theres three hydrophones: Ball (Used on S boats) Ball_02 (mounted on under water on the boats "chin" of All other boats) Head ( mounted on main deck like a uboat) Its Hydrophone_Ball_02 is the one producing the contacts.

08-13-07, 07:23 PM	#15
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	I beleive the answer to that lays in the sensors.cfg, as i think it defines sensors to the player, much like the sim.cfg defines sensor to the AI. In particular would be hydrophones section. I thought about this, but in the end, im too lazy to test it, and it was much quicker and easier for me to just lower then MinsensorHeight and be done with it - cause like i just admited, i got lazy and took the easy way out. One variable stands out to me, "Speed factor". I think its possible specify the hydrophones to only work at say 4-5 kts. This will effect botht surface and submerged however.