[TEC] Visual Detection Properties?

NefariousKoel · 08-03-07, 12:10 PM

I'm just wondering if anyone has details on what each value in the [Visual] section of the sim.cfg file affects and, most importantly, how the values there affect visual sighting.

I'm not exactly sure how the math works for all the values interacting together. I've got an idea on a couple but it's still a mystery overall and I'd like to tweak it some more.

Ducimus · 08-03-07, 01:40 PM

[Visual]

Code:

Detection time=0.5					;[s] min detection time.

(translation, expose yourself for 30 seconds)

Code:

Sensitivity=0.1						;(0..1)	min detection threshold double detection time.

(honestly, havent played with this much. Assumption is turn it up to make the AI more sensitive to visual input)

Code:

Fog factor=1.0						;[>=0]

How much fog effects AI's ability to see

Code:

Light factor=2.0	;1.7					;[>=0]

How much light conditions effect the AI's ability to see at dawn, dusk, and night time. Default is 1.7

Code:

Waves factor=4.0					;[>=0]

How much ocean conditions effect the AI's ablity to see. My guess is in a 15 kt wind, his range is severly limited. Rough weather = good for you.

Code:

Enemy surface factor=50					;[m2]

Effects how much surface area of your submarine must be present in order for the AI to see. Actutal surface area you are presenting changes with range. Theoritcal example, surfaced bows on to a tin at 9,000 M, you might have only 25 units of measurement on your submarines surface exposed. (if you gave him your broad side that 25 would probably increase to 200 or something)

At 5,000 meters you might have 75 units of measurement because your now closer, and you as an object are now larger. naturally, a periscope presents a small surface factor. Old default was a surface factor of 150 or 200. So you'd have to have pratcially been right on top of the AI for him to see you on the surface, and he'd have never seen your periscope. If you raise this too far, the AI will be unable to detect your periscope.

Code:

Enemy speed factor=25					;[kt]

In terms of visual detection, im not really sure what this does anymore. Id like to think it defines the max speed at which the AI will notice something.

Code:

Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation=1.0

I have no idea why this variable even exists in the visual block since you have to be submerged in order for it to come into play.

Bando · 08-03-07, 01:50 PM

Thanks Ducimus.
It would be very handy if these tips were gathered in some sort of database. Hmmmm:hmm:

Ducimus · 08-03-07, 02:01 PM

Personally i think the AI visual in patch 1.3 is good enough (notice i didnt say it's fine)

Balancing the visual settings is REALLY hard. I experimented with similar settings such as these back during patch 1.2, but gave up because i figured everyone would complain about uber visuals. In hindsight i may have been on the right track.

Heres the problem.
If you adjust the surface factor up to high, the AI can't see periscopes at all. If you lower it so they can, then they can detect things with seeminly super human ablities.

So the obvious answer is to adjust the enviormentals so its not so uber, and wont be uber unless its a clear calm day. BUt this leads to other problems.

If you adjust the light factor too high, AI can't see squat. The game has a very looose interpretation of what is dusk and dawn, and while the lighting may be broad day light to you, to the AI, its dark. Translation, dumb AI.

If you adjust the fog factor too high, again, AI can't see squat. ALOT of days you'll have light fog, and you'll get an effect similar to light factor being too high.

Wave factor is the only sure shot at limiting the AI, since this is variable is always present, and ..well.. it varies. Probably why Ubi cranked it up to 4.0

Now aside from trying to achieve the right balance of variables, theres also the historical aspect. From what ive read, while the japaense sonar wasn't quite as advanced as our own, ive read stories about how they'd line their entire decks with lookouts. Not a handful, but the practicall the whole crew up on deck with glasses. So if those accounts are true, then it could be reasonbly assumed that the japs acutally had some really good visual detection. But again, like most realism arguments, its subjective to what you read, and how often events like that occured if true.

Canonicus · 08-03-07, 03:02 PM

I read somewhere that the Japanese navy would select the seamen with the very best eyesite for special night vision trainning with binoculars. This was necessitated by the need to fight at night during the Guadalcanal campaign. You know, the "Tokyo Express" runs down the "Slot" around Savo Island.

And we know how effective the japs were at getting those "long lance" torpedoes to ther targets... the area around Savo's not called "IronBottom Sound", for nothing.

Ducimus · 08-03-07, 04:15 PM

Heh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironbottom_Sound

NefariousKoel · 08-03-07, 07:16 PM

Thanks Duci!

I thought I had some of those figured out but didn't know if the Fog/Light/Wave factors were a multiplier or divider. Looks like the higher the are, the more difficult on them.

IIRC, up through 1.2 the surface factor was 400 (meters squared). Now it's down to 50.

I still want to tone some of the stuff down and playing around with some values but didn't know which way to go on some of them.

08-03-07, 12:10 PM	#1
NefariousKoel Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: No-good Missouri scum Posts: 1,223 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	[TEC] Visual Detection Properties? I'm just wondering if anyone has details on what each value in the [Visual] section of the sim.cfg file affects and, most importantly, how the values there affect visual sighting. I'm not exactly sure how the math works for all the values interacting together. I've got an idea on a couple but it's still a mystery overall and I'd like to tweak it some more. __________________ "When Gary told me he had found Jesus, I thought, Yahoo! We're rich! But it turned out to be something different." - Jack Handey

08-03-07, 01:40 PM	#2
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	[Visual] Code: Detection time=0.5 ;[s] min detection time. (translation, expose yourself for 30 seconds) Code: Sensitivity=0.1 ;(0..1) min detection threshold double detection time. (honestly, havent played with this much. Assumption is turn it up to make the AI more sensitive to visual input) Code: Fog factor=1.0 ;[>=0] How much fog effects AI's ability to see Code: Light factor=2.0 ;1.7 ;[>=0] How much light conditions effect the AI's ability to see at dawn, dusk, and night time. Default is 1.7 Code: Waves factor=4.0 ;[>=0] How much ocean conditions effect the AI's ablity to see. My guess is in a 15 kt wind, his range is severly limited. Rough weather = good for you. Code: Enemy surface factor=50 ;[m2] Effects how much surface area of your submarine must be present in order for the AI to see. Actutal surface area you are presenting changes with range. Theoritcal example, surfaced bows on to a tin at 9,000 M, you might have only 25 units of measurement on your submarines surface exposed. (if you gave him your broad side that 25 would probably increase to 200 or something) At 5,000 meters you might have 75 units of measurement because your now closer, and you as an object are now larger. naturally, a periscope presents a small surface factor. Old default was a surface factor of 150 or 200. So you'd have to have pratcially been right on top of the AI for him to see you on the surface, and he'd have never seen your periscope. If you raise this too far, the AI will be unable to detect your periscope. Code: Enemy speed factor=25 ;[kt] In terms of visual detection, im not really sure what this does anymore. Id like to think it defines the max speed at which the AI will notice something. Code: Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation=1.0 I have no idea why this variable even exists in the visual block since you have to be submerged in order for it to come into play.

08-03-07, 01:50 PM	#3
Bando Commodore Join Date: May 2007 Location: Where you don't see me Posts: 607 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	Thanks Ducimus. It would be very handy if these tips were gathered in some sort of database. Hmmmm:hmm: __________________ Regards, Bando

08-03-07, 07:16 PM	#7
NefariousKoel Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: No-good Missouri scum Posts: 1,223 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Thanks Duci! I thought I had some of those figured out but didn't know if the Fog/Light/Wave factors were a multiplier or divider. Looks like the higher the are, the more difficult on them. IIRC, up through 1.2 the surface factor was 400 (meters squared). Now it's down to 50. I still want to tone some of the stuff down and playing around with some values but didn't know which way to go on some of them. __________________ "When Gary told me he had found Jesus, I thought, Yahoo! We're rich! But it turned out to be something different." - Jack Handey

08-03-07, 02:01 PM	#4
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Personally i think the AI visual in patch 1.3 is good enough (notice i didnt say it's fine) Balancing the visual settings is REALLY hard. I experimented with similar settings such as these back during patch 1.2, but gave up because i figured everyone would complain about uber visuals. In hindsight i may have been on the right track. Heres the problem. If you adjust the surface factor up to high, the AI can't see periscopes at all. If you lower it so they can, then they can detect things with seeminly super human ablities. So the obvious answer is to adjust the enviormentals so its not so uber, and wont be uber unless its a clear calm day. BUt this leads to other problems. If you adjust the light factor too high, AI can't see squat. The game has a very looose interpretation of what is dusk and dawn, and while the lighting may be broad day light to you, to the AI, its dark. Translation, dumb AI. If you adjust the fog factor too high, again, AI can't see squat. ALOT of days you'll have light fog, and you'll get an effect similar to light factor being too high. Wave factor is the only sure shot at limiting the AI, since this is variable is always present, and ..well.. it varies. Probably why Ubi cranked it up to 4.0 Now aside from trying to achieve the right balance of variables, theres also the historical aspect. From what ive read, while the japaense sonar wasn't quite as advanced as our own, ive read stories about how they'd line their entire decks with lookouts. Not a handful, but the practicall the whole crew up on deck with glasses. So if those accounts are true, then it could be reasonbly assumed that the japs acutally had some really good visual detection. But again, like most realism arguments, its subjective to what you read, and how often events like that occured if true.

08-03-07, 03:02 PM	#5
Canonicus XO Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: In your baffles... Posts: 434 Downloads: 624 Uploads: 7	I read somewhere that the Japanese navy would select the seamen with the very best eyesite for special night vision trainning with binoculars. This was necessitated by the need to fight at night during the Guadalcanal campaign. You know, the "Tokyo Express" runs down the "Slot" around Savo Island. And we know how effective the japs were at getting those "long lance" torpedoes to ther targets... the area around Savo's not called "IronBottom Sound", for nothing.

08-03-07, 04:15 PM	#6
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Heh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironbottom_Sound