How realistic do you play SH3

[Chisum]

Originally Posted by Klaus_Doldinger

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Fantastic!

I'm really glad to see you laughing but I am very interested of knowing why this laughter.
Perhaps you did not understand my message well ?
I wanted to really know why play in 100% realistic.
Can you give me a good reason to do that ?

Is this to be able to say that you made the mission like a truth Kaleun ?
Or perhaps to be able to say that you did not cheat ?
If it is that, I continue not understand…
A truth Kaleun you'll be never.
And the cheat you do it always simply when using the time compressor...

Then why ?
Why remove 50% of the wonderfull graphics of this game by removing the F12 ?
To be able to say "I don't cheat" ?
And when you take again a save because you were sunk, you cheatings not ?

Let me tell you something.
A couple of day ago, I met a small task force in NO of Ireland at the end of the day.
There was un Carrier "Bogue", a Destroyer "Hunt 1", a Destroyer "Q&R" and a terrific Destroyer "River".
Against this "River" you know that you have NO CHANCE to survive.

What's happened ?

The first time, I use F12 to indentifier the enemy.
But in spite of F12, I have fine an error and I made a bad identification, I missed the '"River".
After impact on the carrier, the "River" fight me directly.
I try to resist hardly 2 hours, I try everything to escape, but "no chance to survive" and I was killed.
Very sad to my crew, I need a revenge.

I back using the save and this time no failing identification.
I hunt the River at first and it was a question of life or death, him or me.
And I get it after 30' fight, it was a very great moment when he blow up.
The Q&R and the Hunt were easier to kill and after that, a great hunt and the Bogue finaly sunk in the night.
I was really enjoyed because it was a very difficult challenge.

Now tell me: in 100% realism, what do you make when you meet a same task force ?
You get deep, very deep and very silent because you know you have no chance to survive.

And your pleasure goes away.
Not mine.

Anyway, as says Kpt. Lehmann everyone plays as he wants but as I still did not understand I continue to ask: why play in 100% and to pass beside so many things ??

Regards.

[bookworm_020]

I play at around 50% realism. It hasn't ment easy sailing by any means. I lost count of the times where a lick of paint seperated me from death!

[Heibges]

Originally Posted by aaronblood

I'd say a typical successful patrol for me would be maybe 3-5 ships sunk. I don't always shoot a fan of 3, but almost always at least 2, and then maybe a 3rd to finish if needed. The intent is to score at least 2 hits on the initial attack. This seems to be in agreement with what I've read in the handbook about expenditure of torps.

Agreed 7 ships in a single patrol would be an unusually good patrol.

I try to use the deckgun as outlined in section 5. ...which is basically not much. Attack with deckgun only if there's little to no threat of retribution.

I seldomly make initial contact with the hydro, but sometimes it happens, like maybe once every 3 or 4 patrols. But I don't think I've ever played a patrol where I haven't sunk a ship... unless badly damaged in some way that is.

I guess I patrol the assigned area at slow speed on surface for the 24 horus and if I don't find anything I head for a favorite traffic area. I'd say most of my contacts are via BdU radio contact reports though.

When you say that for 1/3 of your patrols you see no targets, do you chase after the BdU radio contacts or just ignore them. I could see myself not finding targets if I didn't chase after the reported contacts.

I chase after them, but I only rse my hydrophones to locate them in poor visibility.

But on a daily basis, until Allied aircraft dicatate otherwise, I would do a safety dive at dawn and dusk, but otherwise spend all my time on the surface. Except of course in heavy fog, in which I always try to stay submerged, and never initiate an attack.

What does Map Updates refer to? The large boxes and diamonds on the Navigation Map? I wish the game gave you a 6 digit grid AN5654, for contacts instead of a 4 digit. Then you really could plot the contact reports yourself.

There are some patrols where no targets appear close enough for me to reach, or I just can't locate them. Very rarely do I "stumble" upon a convoy so to speak.

I remember one patrol where I hadn't seen anything, and then I found 5 small merchants, each travelling solo, over about 2 grid squares, in calm seas, and I sank all 5 with the deckgun. I only sank 10k, but it was probably my favorite patrol I ever went on.

An average 3 patrols for me looks like.

Patrol 1 = 0 Sunk
Patrol 2= 1 Sunk
Patrol 3= 5 Sunk

Patrol 4= 0 Sunk
Patrol 5= 2 Sunk
Patrol 6 = 4 Sunk

Patrol 7=0 Sunk
Patrol 8=1 Sunk
Patrol 9=7 Sunk

[jmr]

Originally Posted by Puster Bill

The only thing is that I do keep stabilized view enabled, so I'm only at 95% realism.

I'm thinking of doing the same. I've always been curious as to how a WW2 era sub would behave at periscope depth in rough seas. In SHIII it's like riding a bucking bronco but in SHIV the pitching in rough seas at periscope depth is MUCH, much more subdued than it is in SHIII.

Which one is realistic? I don't know. I should ask over at the submarine forums at Military.com as they have a few veterans there that served time aboard some of the old boats.

Originally Posted by Chisum

Or perhaps what will you play never again when you will have been killed?

Anyway, as says Kpt. Lehmann everyone plays as he wants but as I still did not understand I continue to ask: why play in 100% and to pass beside so many things ??

Recently I've reloaded my second patrol about 5-8 times as after many gametime days I've made half of my route all the time being sunk by airplanes. It doesn't make sense to start over as it wouldn't change anything at all. Just needed to learn some techniques to survive and now I proceed normally, taking minor damages and crawling forward. If sunk... bye bye especially that I've done my patrol and have a little tonnage. On my way home.

For me fun is to play this game as realistic as I can, fun to look for more realistic ways, read as much as I can about equipment, how it was used, what problems it had, about tactics, about people etc. WW2 was not a "funny thing" so why should I treat it as fun? I want a simulation, a hardcore simulation because that's what sims are for. If I want to get rid of adrenaline I would reach for NFS Carbon (or drive my car) but now at this stage of my SH3 I simply don't need to play anything else. I relaxes me, fears me, makes me bored (I go to sleep while the boat crawls at 1xTC - I love the rumble of Diesels), gives a lot of glory-feel when "gut gemacht" etc.

I love german technique from and after WWII, I'm a kind of guy that uses his PC everyday as a must have tool for everything but I drive an '82 Mercedes cause of my sheer appreciation to the old school, of simple machinery, doing it's job amazingly well comparing to top todays solutions.

This story should be very long and this is not the place, but this is why I play Sh3 that way. Of coarse I started from a simple realism setting to feel the game etc but this is a great thing. You can start playing the game, learn it and than move to more hardcore. I can't imagine someone buying this kind of game and doing first run on 100%, he would throw it away. I want dash anyone for playing not like me, it's your choice, but I will encourage. It freaks me out when I see someone posting as mentioned here, wow what a realistic patrol, at the end I see 250 000 tons......

PS Heibges - I like your approach very much! This is how it works.

Best regards

[Klaus_Doldinger]

Originally Posted by Chisum

I'm really glad to see you laughing but I am very interested of knowing why this laughter.
Perhaps you did not understand my message well ?
I wanted to really know why play in 100% realistic.
Can you give me a good reason to do that ?

Is this to be able to say that you made the mission like a truth Kaleun ?
Or perhaps to be able to say that you did not cheat ?
If it is that, I continue not understand…
A truth Kaleun you'll be never.
And the cheat you do it always simply when using the time compressor...

Then why ?
Why remove 50% of the wonderfull graphics of this game by removing the F12 ?
To be able to say "I don't cheat" ?
And when you take again a save because you were sunk, you cheatings not ?

Let me tell you something.
A couple of day ago, I met a small task force in NO of Ireland at the end of the day.
There was un Carrier "Bogue", a Destroyer "Hunt 1", a Destroyer "Q&R" and a terrific Destroyer "River".
Against this "River" you know that you have NO CHANCE to survive.

What's happened ?

The first time, I use F12 to indentifier the enemy.
But in spite of F12, I have fine an error and I made a bad identification, I missed the '"River".
After impact on the carrier, the "River" fight me directly.
I try to resist hardly 2 hours, I try everything to escape, but "no chance to survive" and I was killed.
Very sad to my crew, I need a revenge.

I back using the save and this time no failing identification.
I hunt the River at first and it was a question of life or death, him or me.
And I get it after 30' fight, it was a very great moment when he blow up.
The Q&R and the Hunt were easier to kill and after that, a great hunt and the Bogue finaly sunk in the night.
I was really enjoyed because it was a very difficult challenge.

Now tell me: in 100% realism, what do you make when you meet a same task force ?
You get deep, very deep and very silent because you know you have no chance to survive.

And your pleasure goes away.
Not mine.

Anyway, as says Kpt. Lehmann everyone plays as he wants but as I still did not understand I continue to ask: why play in 100% and to pass beside so many things ??

Regards.

Why do you get so furious with me?

I was only laughing your fine joke about realism. You can believe it.

Please accept my apologies if you felt I tried to laugh about you or your realism level.

You don´t need to justify yourself about why you play or not at a certain level of "realism". I play at 100% because GWX says that I play at 100%, no wonder if I use contact updates or not. The primary goal for me is to find a balance between challenge, playability and fun, no more, no less. For me it´s irrelevant if Mr. X or Mr. Y think that I´don´t play correctly for their own "realism" standards. Who cares about that? If one of these days I feel that my play becomes tedious with my time/distance table, for example, I´ll look for another system of targeting. Or If I become quite mad, I´ll play at x1 compression time, I´ll wake up at midnignt if the watch officer shouts "Schiff gesichtet!" to play at 4AM, and, of course, I´ll not take a shower and a shave for all the duration of the patrol, played, of course, at x1 time.

The only thing I´ll not do to increase my "realism" level when become killed is to commit suicide!:rotfl:

Best regards and believe me: I was only laughing your joke about "realism" .

[XLjedi]

First off... please don't take anything I say as criticism, I'm just trying to understand the tactics that others are using.

Originally Posted by Heibges

I chase after them, but I only rse my hydrophones to locate them in poor visibility.

If the contact position is known and the approx speed and direction, why would you ever need to use hydrophones to locate them? ...except for the very poor visibility situation that you mention. In good conditions, I plot an intercept course and usually run smack into em.

When I say I occasionally locate some by hydro it's usually an incidental contact. In other words, I've already located one contact and I've commenced a submerged approach. While on approach the hydro manages to pick up a second target I didn't know about.

In extremely bad conditions I will sometimes submerge to 50 just to (in my mind) give the crew a break. ...and in those situations, sometimes, I get a hydro contact.

Originally Posted by Heibges

But on a daily basis, until Allied aircraft dicatate otherwise, I would do a safety dive at dawn and dusk, but otherwise spend all my time on the surface. Except of course in heavy fog, in which I always try to stay submerged, and never initiate an attack.

I think the game in itself does a pretty good job in support of that style of gameplay. I know I don't have the patience to traverse any great distance submerged.

Originally Posted by Heibges

What does Map Updates refer to? The large boxes and diamonds on the Navigation Map? I wish the game gave you a 6 digit grid AN5654, for contacts instead of a 4 digit. Then you really could plot the contact reports yourself.

Yeah the boxes, the ship outlines when zoomed in close, the bearing lines for hydro contacts. That kind of info gives perfect information about the target true course. The boxes even have tails to indicate direction. Really, with the nav updates turned on, there's no reason to ever use the stadimeter.

Really though, it's the hydro contact line that's the worst... it terminates at the exact location of the target. Personally, I don't really care if people use it or not. It's just that when people say they play at 100% "overkill" I don't know if they're tracking targets or not. It's hard to determine target true course. When playing with no map updates, radio contacts from BdU are like gifts from heaven.

Originally Posted by Heibges

There are some patrols where no targets appear close enough for me to reach, or I just can't locate them. Very rarely do I "stumble" upon a convoy so to speak.

I remember one patrol where I hadn't seen anything, and then I found 5 small merchants, each travelling solo, over about 2 grid squares, in calm seas, and I sank all 5 with the deckgun. I only sank 10k, but it was probably my favorite patrol I ever went on.

An average 3 patrols for me looks like.

Patrol 1 = 0 Sunk
Patrol 2= 1 Sunk
Patrol 3= 5 Sunk

Patrol 4= 0 Sunk
Patrol 5= 2 Sunk
Patrol 6 = 4 Sunk

Patrol 7=0 Sunk
Patrol 8=1 Sunk
Patrol 9=7 Sunk

I guess I'm such a fuel miser that I can float around in the traffic areas until something appears from BdU that I can sprint after. That may not be playing with historical accuracy... I don't really pay too much attention to how long I've been on patrol. What's missing in the game is some sort of indication that your food and water is running out. Then yeah, I'd probably be forced to return to base for supplies with zero sunk.

Originally Posted by aaronblood

Yeah the boxes, the ship outlines when zoomed in close, the bearing lines for hydro contacts.

I guess I'm such a fuel miser that I can float around in the traffic areas until something appears from BdU that I can sprint after. That may not be playing with historical accuracy... I don't really pay too much attention to how long I've been on patrol.

You can erase tails very simple, also hydro lines, I don't know if they are shown with map updates off but you just change few tga files. I have this done from realnav mod, also sinking places are invisible and sub position (only indication is while having plotted course or navi manually). The map is only to navigate and determine if I can reach a contact indicated by BdU. If I'm not on a good course to intercept I don't chase through the whole map. Simply follow my plan to patrol grid assigned wherever it's located.

If I get a hydro contact and it's firm or closing in on a good course I go and check it out. The best one is to surf into a huge convoy just like that

I try to stay at sea for a month, if nothing happens, the weather is dull it doesn't make sense and I start to head home for repairs and to give my crew some rest. More rested they work better on the next patrol

[Heibges]

I don't zoom in the map to where I can see the hydrolines or the little boxes for the whole convoy, but I do have the single box or triangle on the zoomed out map representing the entire convoy.

GWX, and most other ubermods, erase the tales in the non zoomed out view.

I'm a fuel miser too, so I try to set limits for food etc.

I stay at sea, in a type VII, a maximum of 56 days. (I believe this became a directive later in the war)

In a Type II, I try to keep in around 21 days.

Because I don't zoom in with the Nav Map, and intercept course that I think is right on top of someone, might be 25km alway. Plus sometimes you get the convoys that alternate courses between E and NNE or something to that effect. If you zoom in all the way on the Nav Map, to just before the hydrolines appear, I think the intercepts are too easy to plot.

[XLjedi]

Originally Posted by Hadrys

You can erase tails very simple, also hydro lines, I don't know if they are shown with map updates off but you just change few tga files. I have this done from realnav mod, also sinking places are invisible and sub position (only indication is while having plotted course or navi manually). The map is only to navigate and determine if I can reach a contact indicated by BdU. If I'm not on a good course to intercept I don't chase through the whole map. Simply follow my plan to patrol grid assigned wherever it's located.

If I get a hydro contact and it's firm or closing in on a good course I go and check it out. The best one is to surf into a huge convoy just like that

I try to stay at sea for a month, if nothing happens, the weather is dull it doesn't make sense and I start to head home for repairs and to give my crew some rest. More rested they work better on the next patrol

Nah you don't see any of that when map updates are turned off... all you get is the occasional BdU contact. My point has sorta been that in GWX you can play at 100% and have them on or off. So when people say they play 100% I don't know if their tracking targets.

Originally Posted by aaronblood

Nah you don't see any of that when map updates are turned off... all you get is the occasional BdU contact. My point has sorta been that in GWX you can play at 100% and have them on or off. So when people say they play 100% I don't know if their tracking targets.

That's why don't bother with %%% just how people play

Also that's why I've set external camera not to take away my precious renown as it doesn't come i thousands in 1943...

[XLjedi]

Originally Posted by Heibges

I don't zoom in the map to where I can see the hydrolines or the little boxes for the whole convoy, but I do have the single box or triangle on the zoomed out map representing the entire convoy.

GWX, and most other ubermods, erase the tales in the non zoomed out view.

I'm a fuel miser too, so I try to set limits for food etc.

I stay at sea, in a type VII, a maximum of 56 days. (I believe this became a directive later in the war)

In a Type II, I try to keep in around 21 days.

Because I don't zoom in with the Nav Map, and intercept course that I think is right on top of someone, might be 25km alway. Plus sometimes you get the convoys that alternate courses between E and NNE or something to that effect. If you zoom in all the way on the Nav Map, to just before the hydrolines appear, I think the intercepts are too easy to plot.

Ahh OK I see, you're only partially using the map update feature and you have your own self-imposed rules for zoom that diminishes the accuracy of the plotted contacts. Now it makes sense as to why you'd miss on some intercept attempts.

Hmmm, interesting... :hmm:

Do you have a set map scale that you don't allow yourself to go below when BdU reports a contact?

[XLjedi]

Originally Posted by Hadrys

That's why don't bother with %%% just how people play

Also that's why I've set external camera not to take away my precious renown as it doesn't come i thousands in 1943...

Yeah, I guess I should just totally ignore the %'s.

I wish the ex-cam had that same shudder to it with the explosions as the event cam. I'm gonna try a patrol tonight with no map updates and just the event cam on.

[Thniper]

I play 60 - 100 % realism, mostly depending on the time I have left for playing SH3.
During the week it's around 60%, on weekend it's usually near 100%.

As long as YOU are happy with your level of realism, then why change?

If you're getting bored, then YOU are free to change either the realism setting or the game you're playing.

The only time when realism level really matters is when someone is giving advice here on the forum. Maybe his advice isn't that usefull for you, because he has a lower realism setting OR modified some data of the game.
It would be nice to remember this when you are posting, in order to NOT confuse too many other subsimmers here on the forum.
This is no personal attack, but it really took me some time to find out why Mr. Mohr actually COULD pass through Gibraltar or the English channel on SURFACE.
I find this very confusing sometimes.

Just my two cents.

OFF TOPIC:
OK, really funny, who gave me that 'Bangkok' avatar?

Thniper

[XLjedi]

Originally Posted by jmr

I'm thinking of doing the same. I've always been curious as to how a WW2 era sub would behave at periscope depth in rough seas. In SHIII it's like riding a bucking bronco but in SHIV the pitching in rough seas at periscope depth is MUCH, much more subdued than it is in SHIII.

Which one is realistic? I don't know. I should ask over at the submarine forums at Military.com as they have a few veterans there that served time aboard some of the old boats.

I'd make sure you're making that comparison between a Type IX and a US fleetboat. I would suspect the IX to be a bit more stable than a VII. The US subs also come across as large, slow and lumbering, (and yeah more stable) in comparison to a Type VII. I think they're probably both correct.

My only gripe is the stad in SH3 shoulda been modelled the same as the stad in SH4 and then wave action wouldn't be an issue in SH3. As I've mentioned, I allow myself to pause in SH3 when using the stad to remove the inaccurate wave action difficulty.

I like how the wave action looks and feels otherwise.